[DC3] A Community-Run ISP Is the Highest Rated Broadband Company in America

sivasubramanian muthusamy 6.internet at gmail.com
Mon Sep 3 12:25:32 UTC 2018


Dear Jane

Thank you. It will be useful to participate in this event.

Sivasubramanian M

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018, 5:43 PM Jane Coffin <coffin at isoc.org> wrote:

> Hi Siva –
>
>
> We have a programme – a pretty major one where we are supporting CNs.
> In fact, we work closely with APC, Guifi, governments and many more actors.
>
>
>
> I really think you should ping Naveed about the training in Delhi in
> October.
>
> Naveed is cc’d.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Jane
>
>
>
> Internet Society | www.internetsociety.org
>
> Skype:  janercoffin
>
> Mobile/WhatsApp:  +1.202.247.8429
>
>
>
> *From: *<dc3-bounces at listas.altermundi.net> on behalf of sivasubramanian
> muthusamy <6.internet at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <
> dc3 at listas.altermundi.net>
> *Date: *Monday, September 3, 2018 at 1:44 PM
> *To: *Leandro Navarro <leandro at pangea.org>
> *Cc: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <
> dc3 at listas.altermundi.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [DC3] A Community-Run ISP Is the Highest Rated Broadband
> Company in America
>
>
>
> Dear Leonardo,
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 5:06 PM sivasubramanian muthusamy <
> 6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Leandro,
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 4:10 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro at pangea.org> wrote:
>
> Some replies inline.
>
> On 16/8/18 20:59, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:41 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro at pangea.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi !
>
> Yes, the commons model is superior. CNs need to learn how to make their
> implementations work on a millions scale.
>
>
>
> At B4RN they say they give the best connectivity in the UK because they
> dedicate all their resources to that, and they don't have to pay others.
>
> That is what is needed to build an independant community network. Basing a
> Community Network on a 100 Mbps or a GBPS or two from an ISP or a Telecom
> company makes it a good start, but the Network is an effect a
> sub-distribution operation for a Telecom / ISP in terms of its dependance.
>
> I agree, there are communities that have started like that. Sharing a
> transit connection is a good way to reduce the entry barrier. One good case
> is RemIX in Scotland:
> http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~mmf/res/pubs/gaia16_remix.pdf
>
>
>
> The above link is broken, and also the link to remix architecture from the
> page
> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/good-practice-remix-distributed-internet-exchange-remote-and-rural-networks-scotland
>
>
>
>
> The ec website has a brief article on remix, featuring a link to the remix
> architecture pdf, which also leads to a page that shows the link broken
> (screenshot attached). However an earlier ec blog post on remix led me to
> hubs net, and from its member pages -- >  tegola net how to pages, I landed
> on the specification for P2P and edge equipments, and found some
> interesting information such as on
> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_5XHD_DS.pdf  If you have
> a copy of the remix architecture pdf, please share the file.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Several community networks, as they grow, aggregate more traffic, buy more
> capacity from different carriers, get connected to IXPs (e.g. Ninux,
> Freifunk, guifi, B4RN ... cases we have studied in Europe) which allow them
> to exchange traffic with many other networks, which results in better
> quality traffic for everyone involved.
>
> In the case of guifi.net they also rent optical regional circuits thanks
> to its cost-sharing model to aggregate capacity (the
> sub-distribute/aggregate traffic you mention) from multiple individual or
> local participating retail ISPs that are part of guifi.net. Therefore
> they bridge the gap from retail capacity required by participants to
> wholesale open-access fiber networks.
>
>
>
> All these are good examples to follow.   The goals of good community
> networks such as guifi.net's goal of "promoting advanced research in the
> filed of open networks and infrastructures, and that of generating
> collaboration platforms between stakeholders" worth expanded attention.
> There could be a concerted effort for advanced research, and there could be
> a globally unified platform for collaboration on Community Networks. The
> Internet Society could help build one, using voluteer effort and open
> source technologies.
>
>
>
> Just to understand, do submarine networks offer commercial arrangements
> for transport on a minimal scale ( 1GB / 10 GBPS )?
>
> I'd say this is the role of global carriers and top tier ISPs that offer
> these rates in many points-of-presence globally.
>
>
>
> Submarine networks that are at a higher scale of aggregation.
>
>
>
> It would be helpful to understand what this 'higher scale' is (For
> example, See-Me-We 4 has a design capacity of 4.6 TBPS / s . Would it be
> too insignificant for this network to provide a strand of 100 GBPS/s ? for
> we will eventually get there, and surpass this scale (one or two new
> Community Networks with higher aspirations could even start at the beach
> front)
>
>
>
> What is the typical cost of a 1GB / 10 GBPS switch at an IXP? Do IXPs
> everywhere offer supernodes to Community Networks?
>
> CNs can participate in IXPs just like any other member org. The price of
> ports in IXP I understand depend on the size and specific infra costs of
> that IXP (size is really diverse). Many IXPs are also distributed (PoP in
> multiple locations). These are from our local IXP:
> http://www.catnix.net/en/taxes/
>
> In addition, the transport/peering costs in the IXP vary depending on the
> symmetry of traffic. For instance, I remember talking to Freifunk in Berlin
> 1-2 years ago, and they were paying net 0 for traffic (without entering
> into details) as they have a very symmetric traffic (a good balance between
> content they deliver and they request, the so called "eyeballs").
>
> Would be helpful if any of the submarine networks or its partners and IXPs
> share their pricing roughly.
>
> Many of these prices can be collected or guessed from diverse sources. If
> you investigate that it would be useful to share the results.
>
> Kind regards, Leandro.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
> They're not the only ones. In
> https://www.measurementlab.net/publications/2015-Braem-et-al.pdf with
> independent data from M-Lab, you can see that 3 CNs are among the best
> operators in their countries in quality (e.g. section 4.2 pg 5, Figure 10
> pg 6). We say: "The three networks are among the top eight ISPs in
> download speed. guifi.net is ranked first in Spain both in median upload
> speed and best median latency; Ninux (FusoLab) is ranked second in upload,
> and fourth in best latency; AWMN (part of LANCOM) is first in upload speed,
> 8th in best latency. In the area of Barcelona, where guifi.net has its
> connections to Internet carriers, the results are excellent: first in
> upload speed (guifi.net 7.82 Mbps, the Academic network 4.23 and
> Cableuropa ONO 3.31), third in download speed (Cableuropa-ONO 18.1 Mbps,
> the Academic network 9.8, guifi.net 9.79) and first in best latency (
> guifi.net 14 ms, Vodafone 25, Cableuropa-ONO 35)".
>
> That is something known in the world of free software. There are free
> implementations that are superior to commercial ones (Android is based on
> GNU/Linux, let's see when Movistar is based on the infrastructure of
> guifi.net...). All commercial software products are built from free
> software, built openly and cooperatively (as commons), because that seems
> to be the only way to have robust enough software infrastructures/libraries
> at a reasonable cost/quality to build stable products on top.
>
> Cheers, Leandro.
>
> On 16/8/18 17:27, Sarbani Banerjee Belur wrote:
>
> Hi Sivasubramanian,
>
>
>
> Community networks does exist in India and it is a sustainable initiative.
>
> Gram Marg at IIT Bombay has set up one spanning 10 villages in Palghar,
>
> Maharashtra, Digital Empowerment Foundation has set up some as well. There
>
> are more going to be set up in this year and the next. These CNs are set
>
> up in locations that have no mobile connectivity and are usually in
>
> remote, rural villages of India.
>
> Local ISPs have come to the rescue and provide bandwidth in such locations.
>
>
>
> With regards,
>
> Sarbani
>
>
>
> In Chennai, India, I spoke to someone in an educational institution about
>
> starting a Community Network. He argued that access is no longer a problem
>
> as Telecom companies offer 3G and 4G services everywhere. He wouldn't
>
> listen to arguments concerning the cost and clever pricing models of
>
> access
>
> that indiscernably amass huge sums by microscopic extraction,  wouldn't
>
> listen to arguments about nominal and actual bandwidth.  He and some
>
> others
>
> take the position that a case does not exist for Community Networks here.
>
>
>
> Happens to be an iconic opinion. It is a challenge to present arguments,
>
> articles such as this are of ample help.
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:20 PM Marco Zennaro <mzennaro at ictp.it> <mzennaro at ictp.it> wrote:
>
>
>
> Interesting news:
>
>
>
>
>
> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5k5m/consumer-reports-broadband-company-ratings
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> Marco Zennaro, PhD // Research Officer // T/ICT4D Lab // ICTP //
>
> wireless.ictp.it
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
> Please send all replies to 6.Internet at gmail.com
>
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