On 03/10/2018 05:56 PM, Nicholas Kourtzis wrote:
> I was thinking, I haven't seen B4RN mentioned much around the group.
> Wouldn't they also be a good candidate member?


So far, our Bylaws have adopted a very minimalistic definition of
Community Networks, which is the one ISOC has used in their documents:
"network infrastructures built, managed, and used by local communities."

I understand B4RN[1], as well as other operators like many in the
FFDN[2] are not Community Networks in the same sense; they are not built
and managed by the community, but by a non-profit entity which is not
governed by the community itself.

Maybe I'm understanding it wrong. I haven't had the chance to meet
people from B4RN so far. Maybe someone else can shed light on this case.


Cheers,
Nico


[1] https://b4rn.org.uk/about-us/
[2] https://www.ffdn.org/en/members-fdn-federation


> 2018-03-05 15:15 GMT+02:00 bruno vianna <bruno@pobox.com
> <mailto:bruno@pobox.com>>:
>
>     I realize we're missing the US networks, specially Detroit and NYC mesh.
>
>     I don't know if they'd be "obvious"  - even though nyc mesh got
>     funding from ISOC - but I'll look for the contacts and add them to
>     the pad.
>
>     bruno
>
>     On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Sol Luca de Tena <sol@zenzeleni.net
>     <mailto:sol@zenzeleni.net>> wrote:
>
>         Cool guys, let's do this. Let's start with the ones are that
>         already seem obvious (Guifi.net...).
>         - Nico and Panos please provide the CN's info (as mentioned in
>         Nico's last email)
>         - Then send to the council and we give 7 days for council
>         members to oppose or ask any questions regarding new CN.
>         - If all questions from the counsil are answered then we send an
>         formal letter to the CN inviting them into the CNSIG - I think
>         the letter should be from the Chair.
>
>         I say go for it.
>         Sol
>
>         2018-03-02 22:47 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Echániz
>         <nicoechaniz@altermundi.net <mailto:nicoechaniz@altermundi.net>>:

>
>             I tend to think we are making an issue out of this, when it
>             should be
>             simple, at least for the "obvious" candidates.
>
>             We had proposed to ask candidate organizations to answer
>             this info:
>
>             Organization:
>             Country:
>
>             Description:
>             (Brief description of the Organization's involvement in
>             Community Networks)
>
>             Areas of Interest:
>              (Areas of interest related to community networks)
>
>             Representatives (up to three):
>             (name <email>)
>
>
>             I believe this is enough info to ask the "obvious"
>             candidates, so we can
>             move forward.
>
>             I can ask Roger from guifi and Jenny Ryan from
>             SudoMesh/PeoplesOpen to
>             send this info vía e-mail. They both already asked about
>             joining.
>
>
>             I have also started talking with Elektra (Freifunk) about
>             the CNSIG but
>             as Panos mentioned there is less clarity in their case
>             regarding who is
>             entitled to represent their organization.
>
>             I have no direct contact with Funkfeuer (someone mentioned
>             Paul Fuxjaeger).
>
>             I'm also not sure about which other candidates we consider
>             obvious...
>
>             I would also make emphasis in not having an
>             over-representation of
>             Europe in the group or we risk losing the global
>             perspective. We can
>             make an effort to actively reach out to organizations in
>             other regions
>             to try to keep some balance in the group.
>
>
>             Cheers,
>             NicoEchániz
>
>
>
>             On 03/02/2018 11:09 AM, panayotis antoniadis wrote:
>             >
>             > Dear all,
>             >
>             > I agree with the points made by Sol and I apologize for
>             insisting on
>             > this topic.
>             >
>             > From my side this is a source of stress, not being part of
>             previous
>             > efforts and not being clear to me which groups or
>             individuals were
>             > somehow "responsible" for blocking the process.
>             >
>             > Very practically, I feel for example like asking people
>             from Freifunk to
>             > join or even to ask why they are not already requested
>             themselves to do
>             > so, but I am afraid not to "enter" in an old debate that I
>             am not aware of.
>             >
>             > In any case, I would feel more comfortable if there are
>             soon no obvious
>             > CNs missing from the list of organizations or at least if
>             I understand
>             > why this is so :-)
>             >
>             > But I would also accept to stop worrying and "start
>             working first"
>             > having these issues cleared out for me (and perhaps for
>             others) along
>             > the way.
>             >
>             > Best,
>             >
>             > Panos.
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             > On 28.02.2018 23:07, Sol Luca de Tena wrote:
>             >> Hi Panos and all,
>             >>
>             >> Here are my two cents worth in my personal capacity. I
>             agree on
>             >> inclusion in general, so I do believe some work in
>             reaching out is
>             >> necessary and valuable. Furthermore,there are some CNs
>             that have
>             >> already reached out to us, like Gufinet, that seem like
>             very natural
>             >> participants and they should be integrated asap.
>             >>
>             >> On the other hand, I think it will be valuable to reach
>             out to CNs
>             >> that are perhaps not represented in other groups and
>             whose input has
>             >> not been considered before. My point here I guess is that
>             we don't
>             >> only end up reaching to the organisations we all know,
>             but research
>             >> further to incorporate others more "out of the loop" -
>             maybe aiming at
>             >> some regional diversity but mainly to push ourselves to
>             go further
>             >> than the norm.
>             >>
>             >> This leads me to another point, which is that we should avoid
>             >> duplicating efforts made by others. In order to not
>             duplicate we need
>             >> to understand what we are doing and what has been/ is
>             being done by
>             >> others. For me one of the first tasks we need to do
>             (perhaps within
>             >> the WGs) is to understand what prior work/efforts are
>             valuable to our
>             >> work. This may lead in some cases to rather partner/ have
>             regular
>             >> meetings with other groups or organisations than to
>             integrate everyone
>             >> into this SIG.
>             >>
>             >> In summary, I would make a lean procedure to accept CNs
>             that are
>             >> "obvious" candidates which have requested to be part of
>             the CNSIG.
>             >> Maybe a council member formally nominates them and the
>             council has a
>             >> short period to approve or object. For further reaching
>             out, I would
>             >> first aim to create a comprehensive list of CNs and
>             groups that are
>             >> relevant to the CNSIG (maybe within the WGs) to get a
>             clear idea of
>             >> what there is/ who is out there and what our relationship
>             would be
>             >> (member of the CNSIG? partner? etc).
>             >>
>             >> What do you think?
>             >> Sol
>             >>
>             >> 2018-02-22 23:35 GMT+02:00 panayotis antoniadis
>             <panayotis@nethood.org <mailto:panayotis@nethood.org>

>             >> <mailto:panayotis@nethood.org

>             <mailto:panayotis@nethood.org>>>:
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>     Dear all,
>             >>
>             >>     I was somehow waiting something to happen regarding
>             this issue and
>             >>     Nico
>             >>     just reminded me that there were no answers to the
>             e-mail :-)
>             >>
>             >>     So, I am answering!
>             >>
>             >>     From my side, the list started by Nico is already
>             good enough to start
>             >>     contacting and here is a pad to "add" to the list
>             (together with a
>             >>     very
>             >>     draft invitation text):
>             >>
>             >>     https://pad.codigosur.org/CNSIG_reach-out
>             <https://pad.codigosur.org/CNSIG_reach-out>
>             >>     <https://pad.codigosur.org/CNSIG_reach-out
>             <https://pad.codigosur.org/CNSIG_reach-out>>
>             >>
>             >>     Personally, I know people from the three first
>             networks, and I
>             >>     could do
>             >>     the contact. But I don't really want to take the lead
>             on this and
>             >>     would
>             >>     do it only if asked.
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>     Best,
>             >>
>             >>     Panos.
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>     On 29.01.2018 20:07, Nicolás Echániz wrote:
>             >>     > Hi all,
>             >>     >
>             >>     > During the meeting one of the subjects that was
>             raised but we had no
>             >>     > time to address is the reach-out process and
>             candidates selection.
>             >>     >
>             >>     > I propose that we create in this thread a list of
>             the community
>             >>     networks
>             >>     > we would like to invite.
>             >>     >
>             >>     > Considering the Special Interest Group is meant to
>             be global, I
>             >>     believe
>             >>     > it is important to try to keep some regional
>             balance in the
>             >>     group over time.
>             >>     >
>             >>     > There were two candidates previously mentioned.
>             Let's grow this list
>             >>     > with the communities we would like to reach out to.
>             I'd suggest
>             >>     that we
>             >>     > also add some contact names for each organization.
>             >>     >
>             >>     > So, starting the list:
>             >>     >

>             >>     > - guifi.net <http://guifi.net> <http://guifi.net>
>             (Roger Baig Viñas, Ramón Roca, ...)
>             >>     > - Freifunk (Elektra Wagenrad, Monic Meisel, André
>             Gaul...)
>             >>     > - Wlan-slovenia (Luka Mustafa/Musti, ...)
>             >>     > - Digital Empowerment Foundation (Ritu Srivastava,
>             Osama Manzar,
>             >>     ...)
>             >>     > - PeoplesOpen/SudoMesh (JennyRyan, ...)
>             >>     > - ...
>             >>     >
>             >>     >
>             >>     > Cheers!
>             >>     > NicoEchániz
>             >>     >
>             >>     >
>             >>     >
>             >>     >
>             >>     > _______________________________________________
>             >>     > Council mailing list
>             >>     > Council@lists.cnsig.info
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>             <mailto:Council@lists.cnsig.info
>             <mailto:Council@lists.cnsig.info>>
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>             <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council>
>             >>     <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
>             <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council>>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>     _______________________________________________
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>             <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council>
>             >>     <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
>             <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council>>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >>
>             >> --
>             >> Sol Luca de Tena
>             >>
>             >> e: sol@zenzeleni.net <mailto:sol@zenzeleni.net>
>             <mailto:sol@zenzeleni.net <mailto:sol@zenzeleni.net>>
>             >> c: (+27/0) 839 47 4946
>             <tel:%28%2B27%2F0%29%20839%2047%204946>
>             >> w: zenzeleni.net <http://zenzeleni.net>
>             <http://zenzeleni.net>
>             >> Skype: sol.lucadetena
>             >>
>             >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxTPSWMX26M
>             <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxTPSWMX26M>
>             >>
>             >> *Zenzeleni Networks NPC*
>             >> - Winner of Best Innovation with Social Impact Award,
>             Innovation
>             >> Bridge 2017
>             >> - Finalist of Mozilla Equal Rating Innovation Challenge, 2017
>             >>
>             >>
>             >> _______________________________________________
>             >> Council mailing list

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>             >> https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
>             <https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council>
>             >
>             >
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>
>
>
>
>         --
>         Sol Luca de Tena
>
>         e: sol@zenzeleni.net <mailto:sol@zenzeleni.net>
>         c: (+27/0) 839 47 4946
>         w: zenzeleni.net <http://zenzeleni.net>
>         Skype: sol.lucadetena
>
>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxTPSWMX26M
>         <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxTPSWMX26M>
>
>         *Zenzeleni Networks NPC*
>         - Winner of Best Innovation with Social Impact Award, Innovation
>         Bridge 2017
>         - Finalist of Mozilla Equal Rating Innovation Challenge, 2017
>
>         _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>     --
>

>     bruno@pobox.com <mailto:bruno@pobox.com> ▀─█▄██▄▀▄
>     http://brunovianna.net <http://brunovianna.net/> ─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄
>     skype: randomico▀─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄▌██─█▌█▌
>
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