22 Oct
2017
22 Oct
'17
10:50 p.m.
Hi all!
Sorry for pointing out an annoying fact, but our IRC channel is not
working as user support contact.
In my opinion should be removed from our contact page on the website.
Most of the questions being asked there remain unanswered because either
we're not answering fast enough or the users disconnect without waiting
enough for an answer (many users are not used to IRC).
This has never really worked.
It's neither being used for discussions about development as devs are
not often active there.
We can just remove the suggestion to contact us via IRC (as seems it's
not a valid contact anymore) and recommend just the mailing list.
Otherwise we can move the channel to another chat system.
What do you think?
Do we need to have a more effective chat for user support or just using
this mailing list is enough?
Bye,
Ilario
23 Oct
23 Oct
12:47 a.m.
On 10/22/2017 07:50 PM, Ilario Gelmetti wrote:
Hi all!
Sorry for pointing out an annoying fact, but our IRC channel is not
working as user support contact.
In my opinion should be removed from our contact page on the website.
Most of the questions being asked there remain unanswered because either
we're not answering fast enough or the users disconnect without waiting
enough for an answer (many users are not used to IRC).
This has never really worked.
It's neither being used for discussions about development as devs are
not often active there.
We can just remove the suggestion to contact us via IRC (as seems it's
not a valid contact anymore) and recommend just the mailing list.
Otherwise we can move the channel to another chat system.
What do you think?
Do we need to have a more effective chat for user support or just using
this mailing list is enough?
I'm with Ilario on this. If the contact channel is not really
effective, we should not announce it in the contact page.
I think the e-mail list is enough for now.
3:22 p.m.
I think we can specify on the website the IRC channel is more -dev
oriented and for support you can use the ML.
There's no reason to delete the info if we are using this communication
channel, but maybe is important to clarify for what we are using it
right now.
bye
--
ɐqɯ@s
25 Oct
25 Oct
12:38 p.m.
On Mon, 2017-10-23 at 17:22 +0200, samba wrote:
I think we can specify on the website the IRC channel
is more -dev
oriented and for support you can use the ML.
There's no reason to delete the info if we are using this
communication
channel, but maybe is important to clarify for what we are using it
right now.
sound a good approach.
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
anyway... +1 for the IRC channel.
12:50 p.m.
On Mon, 2017-10-23 at 17:22 +0200, samba wrote:
I think we can specify on the website the IRC channel
is more -dev
oriented and for support you can use the ML.
There's no reason to delete the info if we are using this
communication
channel, but maybe is important to clarify for what we are using it
right now.
sound a good approach.
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
anyway... +1 for the IRC channel.
1:52 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Nicolas Pace <nico(a)libre.ws> wrote:
On Mon, 2017-10-23 at 17:22 +0200, samba wrote:
For those of you that run telegram matrix/riot is a perfectly suitable
alternative [1] [2] [3]
You don't need to put your phone, your server can run inside your
community network (install steps [4])
I did a IRC freenode/#libremesh-dev channel that integrates with:
https://riot.im/app/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
or
https://matrix.guifi.net/app/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
or
in your server [4]
right now, privacy settings are turned off: it's a completely public
channel (with logs); similar to IRC. But you can enable encryption and
some privacy settings.
Security information about the service [5]
[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/riot-im/id1083446067?mt=8
[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=im.vector.alpha&hl=es
[3] https://f-droid.org/packages/im.vector.alpha/
[4] https://github.com/guifi-exo/wiki/blob/master/howto/matrix-riot.md
[5] Security information (en)
Communication between server and your client is secure (https) but the
admins of this service can read all non end-to-end encrypted messages.
On Riot provides you asynchronous encryption capabilities for
individual and group roomsthrough Double Ratchet Algorithm. Your
metadata (emisor, receptor, cuándo, etc.) is still exposed, "We kill
people based on metadata" said someone. If you think that what you
have to say could be dangerous for you or your people use other tools
to communicate, if you don't know what to use try with retroshare.
Matrix is decentralized: You don't need to trust this service, come
on! install your own matrix server like this one
source https://matrix.guifi.net
I think we can specify on the website the IRC
channel is more -dev
oriented and for support you can use the ML.
There's no reason to delete the info if we are using this
communication
channel, but maybe is important to clarify for what we are using it
right now.
sound a good approach.
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
anyway... +1 for the IRC channel.
3:06 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
On 10/25/2017 02:52 PM, guifipedro wrote:
matrix/riot is a perfectly suitable
alternative [1] [2] [3]
Amazing GuifiPedro!!!
So [1] is the Apple/iThings app, [2] is the Google/Android one. [3] is
the F-Droid/Android one
I did a IRC freenode/#libremesh-dev channel that
integrates with:
Ok, so now we have an IRC channel (still on freenode.net but with a new
name: #libremesh-dev) bridged with a Matrix channel on a guifi.net
server :D
https://riot.im/app/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net>
or
https://matrix.guifi.net/app/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
The second link does not work, I think the correct one is:
https://riot.guifi.net/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
We have to put this link on the website replacing the old IRC channel :D
or
in your server [4]
It's amazing also the fact that we can just use the username and
password from Guifi.net website for login in their Matrix server.
I'm using it with Pidgin on the PC.
I'm NOT suggesting you to use Pidgin as client, I'm sure there are many
more modern and better ones!
Anyway here the steps I followed:
install purple-matrix, this is the repository:
https://github.com/matrix-org/purple-matrix
it is already packaged for some Linux distro, for example:
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/purple-matrix-git/
https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/purple-matrix
https://packages.debian.org/sid/purple-matrix
after installation, restart Pidgin and create a profile for Matrix
setting as username:
@YourUsernameOnGuifiWebsite@matrix.guifi.net
and as password the same as in the guifi.net website. In the advanced
tab set https://matrix.guifi.net as Home server URL.
From the Buddies menu select Join a Chat, select Matrix and try the
following as Room ID:
!xWIRAARPdhfjrGpwAZ:musaik.net
(found at the end of the settings page in the chat web interface)
Other names of the chat room that can be used for connecting with other
clients are:
#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
#freenode_#libremesh-dev:matrix.org
#libremesh-dev:musaik.net
right now, privacy settings are turned off: it's
a completely public
channel (with logs); similar to IRC. But you can enable encryption and
some privacy settings.
I think that for this public chat, no special care of secrecy is needed.
Security information about the service [5]
[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/riot-im/id1083446067?mt=8
[2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=im.vector.alpha&hl=es
[3] https://f-droid.org/packages/im.vector.alpha/
[4] https://github.com/guifi-exo/wiki/blob/master/howto/matrix-riot.md
[5] Security information (en)
Communication between server and your client is secure (https) but the
admins of this service can read all non end-to-end encrypted messages.
On Riot provides you asynchronous encryption capabilities for
individual and group roomsthrough Double Ratchet Algorithm. Your
metadata (emisor, receptor, cuándo, etc.) is still exposed, "We kill
people based on metadata" said someone. If you think that what you
have to say could be dangerous for you or your people use other tools
to communicate, if you don't know what to use try with retroshare.
Matrix is decentralized: You don't need to trust this service, come
on! install your own matrix server like this one
source https://matrix.guifi.net
26 Oct
26 Oct
1:11 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
On 10/25/2017 04:06 PM, Ilario Gelmetti wrote:
On 10/25/2017 02:52 PM, guifipedro wrote:
Actually Pidgin is quite a bad client for Matrix chat (it just shows the
last 10 messages written while the user was offline).
The riot-desktop client is quite good indeed, you can find links for
installing it on your system here (for some Linux distro, like Arch, is
already in the repository):
https://riot.im/desktop.html
then you can enter the chat room whose direction is
#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
matrix/riot is a perfectly suitable
alternative [1] [2] [3]
Ok, so now we have an IRC channel (still on freenode.net
but with a new
name: #libremesh-dev) bridged with a Matrix channel on a guifi.net
server :D
https://riot.guifi.net/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
It's amazing also the fact that we can just use the username and
password from Guifi.net website for login in their Matrix server.
I'm using it with Pidgin on the PC.
I'm NOT suggesting you to use Pidgin as client, I'm sure there are many
more modern and better ones!
30 Oct
30 Oct
12:40 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
I don't like the idea to have another channel where to discuss libremesh
stuff unless we clarify which channel is for what here and on the website.
Actually we have 3 channel where to communicate:
- #libremesh ?
- #libremesh-dev ?
- ML lime-users
I think we need to start to clarify this on the website. People is
asking me where to ask for info and I still point them to the ML.
Also I don't like the idea to use matrix / riot.im
I've some concern with the matrix developer working for Amdocs and their
unclear involvement with Mossad[1]. So, untill matrix will become
something community-based and not developed a matrix-fundation, mostly
funded by Amdocs [2], I will prefer to keep using IRC.
/bye
[1]
https://hackaday.com/2016/07/03/distributed-open-source-chat-with-vector-an…
[2] https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#who-is-funding-matrixorg
--
ɐqɯ@s
1:27 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
I don't feel part of libremesh organization (I still don't have clear
how it coordinates) -> so I don't know how we consensuate ways to
talk.
... but I influenced the decision of matrix chat, and I will give
information about that
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:40 PM, samba <samba(a)autistici.org> wrote:
I don't like the idea to have another channel
where to discuss libremesh
stuff unless we clarify which channel is for what here and on the website.
This was required to bridge with matrix (#libremesh room is not
registered / cannot be registered because is full of people). I
registered #libremesh-dev myself.
Matrix was proposed as a way to facilitate accessibility to chat,
matrix offer essentially:
- public log of the channel [1]
- integration with mobile devices, etc.
- replication of the room through different matrix servers
Actually we have 3 channel where to communicate:
- #libremesh ?
- #libremesh-dev ?
- ML lime-users
I think we need to start to clarify this on the website. People is
asking me where to ask for info and I still point them to the ML.
Also I don't like the idea to use matrix / riot.im
I've some concern with the matrix developer working for Amdocs and their
unclear involvement with Mossad[1]. So, untill matrix will become
something community-based and not developed a matrix-fundation, mostly
funded by Amdocs [2], I will prefer to keep using IRC.
Hope intro text in matrix.guifi.net [2] is enough to clarify that
matrix stuff is for IRC / public channels.
You can use IRC through Freenode/#libremesh-dev
[1] https://riot.guifi.net/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
[2] text says:
Security information
Communication between server and your client is secure (https) but the
admins of this service can read all non end-to-end encrypted messages.
On Riot provides you asynchronous encryption capabilities for
individual and group roomsthrough Double Ratchet Algorithm. Your
metadata (emisor, receptor, cuándo, etc.) is still exposed, "We kill
people based on metadata" said someone. If you think that what you
have to say could be dangerous for you or your people use other tools
to communicate, if you don't know what to use try with retroshare.
Matrix is decentralized: You don't need to trust this service, come
on! install your own matrix server like this one
31 Oct
31 Oct
12:16 a.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
Hi guys,
Regarding the conversation of Matrix or IRC
and libremesh or libremesh-dev y guess we can split the conversation:
I guess the shift from libremesh to libremesh-dev was just to state
that it is not a support mechanism. In that sense, I agree.
The migration to Matrix as the main mechanism is atually not that,
because there is also #libremesh-dev at freenode, I guess we can use
the guifi matrix server as a cache and gateway for those that choose to
use it, and explaining it as such is enough.
The thing about shifting from IRC to Matrix changes the way we conceive
that kind of interaction... I would propose that for support we can
keep the email and leaving this for a casual thing, no matter if it IRC
or Matrix.
Also, the concentration in the Matrix development that samba raised are
relevant for the conversation. IRC is a very stable protocol and matrix
is still in development.
On Mon, 2017-10-30 at 14:27 +0100, guifipedro wrote:
I don't feel part of libremesh organization (I
still don't have clear
how it coordinates) -> so I don't know how we consensuate ways to
talk.
... but I influenced the decision of matrix chat, and I will give
information about that
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:40 PM, samba <samba(a)autistici.org> wrote:
I don't like the idea to have another
channel where to discuss
libremesh
stuff unless we clarify which channel is for what here and on the
website.
This was required to bridge with matrix (#libremesh room is not
registered / cannot be registered because is full of people). I
registered #libremesh-dev myself.
Matrix was proposed as a way to facilitate accessibility to chat,
matrix offer essentially:
- public log of the channel [1]
- integration with mobile devices, etc.
- replication of the room through different matrix servers
Actually we have 3 channel where to communicate:
- #libremesh ?
- #libremesh-dev ?
- ML lime-users
I think we need to start to clarify this on the website. People is
asking me where to ask for info and I still point them to the ML.
Also I don't like the idea to use matrix / riot.im
I've some concern with the matrix developer working for Amdocs and
their
unclear involvement with Mossad[1]. So, untill matrix will become
something community-based and not developed a matrix-fundation,
mostly
funded by Amdocs [2], I will prefer to keep using IRC.
Hope intro text in matrix.guifi.net [2] is enough to clarify that
matrix stuff is for IRC / public channels.
You can use IRC through Freenode/#libremesh-dev
[1] https://riot.guifi.net/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
[2] text says:
Security information
Communication between server and your client is secure (https) but
the
admins of this service can read all non end-to-end encrypted
messages.
On Riot provides you asynchronous encryption capabilities for
individual and group roomsthrough Double Ratchet Algorithm. Your
metadata (emisor, receptor, cuándo, etc.) is still exposed, "We kill
people based on metadata" said someone. If you think that what you
have to say could be dangerous for you or your people use other tools
to communicate, if you don't know what to use try with retroshare.
Matrix is decentralized: You don't need to trust this service, come
on! install your own matrix server like this one
_______________________________________________
lime-users mailing list
lime-users(a)lists.libremesh.org
https://lists.libremesh.org/mailman/listinfo/lime-users 
5 Feb
5 Feb
11:05 a.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
I also find Matrix scary. I might be wrong, but such a hype for a
server-client non-free [0] software which tries to act as a Person In
The Middle interconnecting any other network...
[0] https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Talk:Riot-im
On 31/10/17 01:16, Nicolas Pace wrote:
Hi guys,
Regarding the conversation of Matrix or IRC
and libremesh or libremesh-dev y guess we can split the conversation:
I guess the shift from libremesh to libremesh-dev was just to state
that it is not a support mechanism. In that sense, I agree.
The migration to Matrix as the main mechanism is atually not that,
because there is also #libremesh-dev at freenode, I guess we can use
the guifi matrix server as a cache and gateway for those that choose to
use it, and explaining it as such is enough.
The thing about shifting from IRC to Matrix changes the way we conceive
that kind of interaction... I would propose that for support we can
keep the email and leaving this for a casual thing, no matter if it IRC
or Matrix.
Also, the concentration in the Matrix development that samba raised are
relevant for the conversation. IRC is a very stable protocol and matrix
is still in development.
On Mon, 2017-10-30 at 14:27 +0100, guifipedro wrote:
> I don't feel part of libremesh organization (I still don't have clear
> how it coordinates) -> so I don't know how we consensuate ways to
> talk.
>
> ... but I influenced the decision of matrix chat, and I will give
> information about that
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:40 PM, samba <samba(a)autistici.org> wrote:
>> I don't like the idea to have another channel where to discuss
>> libremesh
>> stuff unless we clarify which channel is for what here and on the
>> website.
> This was required to bridge with matrix (#libremesh room is not
> registered / cannot be registered because is full of people). I
> registered #libremesh-dev myself.
>
> Matrix was proposed as a way to facilitate accessibility to chat,
> matrix offer essentially:
>
> - public log of the channel [1]
> - integration with mobile devices, etc.
> - replication of the room through different matrix servers
>
>> Actually we have 3 channel where to communicate:
>>
>> - #libremesh ?
>> - #libremesh-dev ?
>> - ML lime-users
>>
>> I think we need to start to clarify this on the website. People is
>> asking me where to ask for info and I still point them to the ML.
>>
>> Also I don't like the idea to use matrix / riot.im
>> I've some concern with the matrix developer working for Amdocs and
>> their
>> unclear involvement with Mossad[1]. So, untill matrix will become
>> something community-based and not developed a matrix-fundation,
>> mostly
>> funded by Amdocs [2], I will prefer to keep using IRC.
> Hope intro text in matrix.guifi.net [2] is enough to clarify that
> matrix stuff is for IRC / public channels.
>
> You can use IRC through Freenode/#libremesh-dev
>
> [1] https://riot.guifi.net/#/room/#libremesh-dev:matrix.guifi.net
>
> [2] text says:
>
> Security information
>
> Communication between server and your client is secure (https) but
> the
> admins of this service can read all non end-to-end encrypted
> messages.
> On Riot provides you asynchronous encryption capabilities for
> individual and group roomsthrough Double Ratchet Algorithm. Your
> metadata (emisor, receptor, cuándo, etc.) is still exposed, "We kill
> people based on metadata" said someone. If you think that what you
> have to say could be dangerous for you or your people use other tools
> to communicate, if you don't know what to use try with retroshare.
>
> Matrix is decentralized: You don't need to trust this service, come
> on! install your own matrix server like this one
> _______________________________________________
> lime-users mailing list
> lime-users(a)lists.libremesh.org
> https://lists.libremesh.org/mailman/listinfo/lime-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lime-users mailing list
> lime-users(a)lists.libremesh.org
> https://lists.libremesh.org/mailman/listinfo/lime-users
12:51 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
On 02/05/2018 12:05 PM, Amuza wrote:
I also find Matrix scary. I might be wrong, but such a
hype for a
server-client non-free [0] software
[0] https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Talk:Riot-im
<OT>
I'm using riot-desktop client (don't mess between Matrix, the service,
and Riot-desktop or Riot-web or Riot-android, which are some of the
existing clients [0]) and on the linked page they say it's not free
software because it uses electron, but electron looks as free software
to me [1] or can be shipped as free software depending on the
distribution [2].
</OT>
Anyway1, the libremesh-dev chat [3] can also be accessed through IRC,
and if anyone wants to bridge any other service, I think there's no problem.
Anyway2, if federation is not enough and you're looking for
decentralization: there's also a LibreMesh forum on RetroShare, quite
abandoned and difficult to access by new users.
Ciao!
Ilario
[0] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html
[1] https://github.com/electron/electron/blob/master/LICENSE
[2] https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1231
[3] https://libremesh.org/communication.html
4:17 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] [OT] New Matrix chat
[OT continue]
I'm also critic about matrix.org and any related client, like riot.
I think our approach to technology should be critic and accept and use a
new tech when this is approved and discussed by the communities
My concern about matrix are both political, tecnological and social
political, because the main funder is AMDOC, search amodoc-mossad on
google and you can discover something interesting
tecnological, because
1) matrix generate ALOT ot metadata on the central server, even if the
communication is encrypted, the metadata are not and most of the
software analysis to generate network maps use just metadata, more you
have more the map is accurate
2) the Person-in-the-Middle style as Amuza explain is scary
3) is not free
social
4) is trying to create federation with a single app using a non-standard
protocol with a very broken community and recently with some funding
problems. If we need a solution should be decentralized, like mesh
I wonder when we should start to critic new tech, when they come or when
everybody already use it. Usually we just accept and use it mostly of
this, because it's making life easier.
[/OT]
samba
On 02/05/2018 06:51 AM, Ilario Gelmetti wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:05 PM, Amuza wrote:
--
ɐqɯ@s
I also find Matrix scary. I might be wrong, but
such a hype for a
server-client non-free [0] software
[0] https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Talk:Riot-im
<OT>
I'm using riot-desktop client (don't mess between Matrix, the service,
and Riot-desktop or Riot-web or Riot-android, which are some of the
existing clients [0]) and on the linked page they say it's not free
software because it uses electron, but electron looks as free software
to me [1] or can be shipped as free software depending on the
distribution [2].
</OT>
Anyway1, the libremesh-dev chat [3] can also be accessed through IRC,
and if anyone wants to bridge any other service, I think there's no problem.
Anyway2, if federation is not enough and you're looking for
decentralization: there's also a LibreMesh forum on RetroShare, quite
abandoned and difficult to access by new users.
Ciao!
Ilario
[0] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html
[1] https://github.com/electron/electron/blob/master/LICENSE
[2] https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1231
[3] https://libremesh.org/communication.html
_______________________________________________
lime-users mailing list
lime-users(a)lists.libremesh.org
https://lists.libremesh.org/mailman/listinfo/lime-users
7:02 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
Amuza, thanks for pointing out to very interesting information that I
didn't know.
Probably my last time talking about this; because I feel being
repeated somehow (sorry for that)
My motivation to build matrix.guifi.net (the server I manage) was to
avoid using whatsapp, telegram, signal; and other smartphone
application oriented software. It's very sad that is only for
smartphone, and that forces you to give your mobile phone.
Matrix/riot allows you to use a pseudoanonymous identity. Particularly
this channel is able to be read without login. In matrix.guifi.net you
can access via tor or what you want. At the moment there is not hidden
service available, but if you point me how to do it, I will be happy
to help.
You can do that by yourself:
https://github.com/guifi-exo/wiki/blob/master/howto/matrix-riot.md
I don't have the stats, but before matrix, what I saw in #libremesh IRC
pure channel was login/logout IRC messages with conversations of 3, 4
lines in a week. These matrix days people talk much more.
I hope you can convert that frustration into effective work for an IRC
compatible software that fits the needs of what people expect for a
chat system today. Going back to pure IRC with no help/guidance on how
to install/tips for the client and server is not an acceptable for me.
If riot/matrix did not exist I will probably looking for something
like this (this was my last check on the topic):
https://www.glowing-bear.org/
With love,
Pedro
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Ilario Gelmetti <iochesonome(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/05/2018 12:05 PM, Amuza wrote:
I also find Matrix scary. I might be wrong, but
such a hype for a
server-client non-free [0] software
[0] https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Talk:Riot-im
<OT>
I'm using riot-desktop client (don't mess between Matrix, the service,
and Riot-desktop or Riot-web or Riot-android, which are some of the
existing clients [0]) and on the linked page they say it's not free
software because it uses electron, but electron looks as free software
to me [1] or can be shipped as free software depending on the
distribution [2].
</OT>
Anyway1, the libremesh-dev chat [3] can also be accessed through IRC,
and if anyone wants to bridge any other service, I think there's no problem.
Anyway2, if federation is not enough and you're looking for
decentralization: there's also a LibreMesh forum on RetroShare, quite
abandoned and difficult to access by new users.
Ciao!
Ilario
[0] https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html
[1] https://github.com/electron/electron/blob/master/LICENSE
[2] https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1231
[3] https://libremesh.org/communication.html
_______________________________________________
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6 Feb
6 Feb
1:43 a.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
On 02/05/2018 01:02 PM, guifipedro wrote:
Probably my last time talking about this; because I
feel being
repeated somehow (sorry for that)
no need to be sorry, if you dont wanna talk, don't talk about it
My motivation to build matrix.guifi.net (the server I
manage) was to
avoid using whatsapp, telegram, signal; and other smartphone
application oriented software. It's very sad that is only for
smartphone, and that forces you to give your mobile phone.
so you are looking for one of this messenger solution for mobile, to use
for the libremesh-dev chahnnel, is it right?
Matrix/riot allows you to use a pseudoanonymous
identity. Particularly
this channel is able to be read without login. In matrix.guifi.net you
can access via tor or what you want. At the moment there is not hidden
service available, but if you point me how to do it, I will be happy
to help.
if you mean how to setup an hidden service here's the guide:
https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-onion-service
I don't have the stats, but before matrix, what I
saw in #libremesh IRC
pure channel was login/logout IRC messages with conversations of 3, 4
lines in a week. These matrix days people talk much more.
if the idea is to get more people in the -dev chan ?
we can past a link in the help page of libremesh and propose to use
something like this:
https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libremesh-dev
[sar]
but if we are thinking to increase the user base for some other reason I
don't get maybe we should create a fb group..
[/casm]
I hope you can convert that frustration into effective
work for an IRC
compatible software that fits the needs of what people expect for a
chat system today. Going back to pure IRC with no help/guidance on how
to install/tips for the client and server is not an acceptable for me.
ok, so MAYBE we need to clarify what is the communication channel for
the community and what is the communication channel for devs
usually irc is used for to give support
and for the dev to talk together
for the non-tech community approaching to libremesh we can have
- forum
- wiki
- mailing list
what id like to avoid is
- fb group
- telegram group
- 4chan
- thenewapp_to_rule_them_all
....
I though the new libremesh-dev is the chan for developers
but is not clear for me if it's also the channel for some lost people
asking for help.
I'd love to have a wiki, and I'm proposing again to setup a mediawiki if
you give me access to 109.69.10.46 or if someone in codigosur will read
this email
I think we should start increasing the documentation and this work is a
cooperative work that can be done with the help of the community and a
community tool (like a wiki)
If riot/matrix did not exist I will probably looking
for something
like this (this was my last check on the topic):
https://www.glowing-bear.org/
glowing-brear is an webinterface of weechat and irc client
it's ok, I use weechat on the terminal
With love,
and peace
samba
--
ɐqɯ@s
1:13 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
Just a couple of notes in-line:
On 02/06/2018 02:43 AM, samba wrote:
On 02/05/2018 01:02 PM, guifipedro wrote:
It was like that [0].
I don't have the stats, but before matrix,
what I saw in #libremesh IRC
pure channel was login/logout IRC messages with conversations of 3, 4
lines in a week. These matrix days people talk much more.
if the idea is to get more people in the -dev chan ?
we can past a link in the help page of libremesh and propose to use
something like this:
https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libremesh-dev ok, so MAYBE we need to clarify what is the
communication channel for
the community and what is the communication channel for devs
+1
usually irc is used for to give support
and for the dev to talk together
Should, but it's a fact that it did not work for this project.
what id like to avoid is
- fb group
- telegram group
+1 totally agree
- 4chan
LOL it would be super cool XD
- thenewapp_to_rule_them_all
Meh, maybe, depending on many things, could be, to be evaluated.
is not clear for me if it's also the channel for
some lost people
asking for help.
This mailing list is the only place for user to receive official support
[1], indeed often when users ask for help on the Matrix channel we
redirect them here.
I'd love to have a wiki> and I'm
proposing again to setup a mediawiki
Let's try... Last attempt (on Github wiki) was not successful [2].
I think we should start increasing the documentation
and this work is a
cooperative work
+1000
Anyway I would like to stress the fact that contributions to the main
website documentation are more than welcome and can be provided via pull
requests on Github [3] or via patches attached to an email to the
lime-dev list [4].
Ciao!
Ilario
[0]
https://github.com/libremesh/lime-web/commit/dc389e5d6d35d131a7719a3973ddd7…
"the only official user support channel"
https://libremesh.org/communication.html
[2] https://github.com/libremesh/lime-packages/wiki
[3] https://github.com/libremesh/lime-web/pulls?q=is%3Apr
[4] https://libremesh.org/development.html
4:39 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] New Matrix chat [was: IRC #libremesh...?]
I continue talking because I feel confortable.
Hidden services: Thanks for the link. I'm not going to set a service
that (1) is not going to be used / nobody is requesting it (I proposed
myself and I doubt you would use it given your strong objections to
matrix/riot system) (2) there is no implication between the potential
users of this service.
I don't see matrix/riot as the new app to rule them all you can still
use IRC, alternative matrix client, etc.
I don't have smartphone, but I see that people that use smartphone
need a solution that adapts to this kind of device to be "more active"
with the community.
Of course I'm not facebook user: same reasons => the lack of privacy:
needs to put a real name, "real person"; and I think that's not needed
to cooperate/collaborate.
The reason #libremesh-dev IRC channel is being used in order to do a
bridge with IRC we could not make it in #libremesh because nobody
registered it. I registered #libremesh-dev, hence we have bridge with
matrix and this superpowers are available for anyone that wants to
admin/moderate it.
As I said in a previous message matrix/riot is more used than IRC...
but surprisingly #libremesh-dev channel is not used to discuss
development. The conversations are usually between users and some of
the developers => Q&A, user support
Development conversations are probably going through another stuff
that I don't know.
About "metadata leaking" in the other mail. What I can say is that IRC
90% use shows your current used IP to all users (you can torify this
connection but I don't how to do it and/or nobody that uses that). I
see an important need to have a log of the channel to encourage people
to enter again, see what's going on, because lots of users of IRC
users connect and disconnect a lot (and changing this actitude/habit
could be hard, it's not my case, I have an irssi client running in a
server). To have this public log: again, too much sensitive
information. The problem is that I see really important to have a
public/transparent place to do conversations and this inherently leaks
metadata. Fortunally the services we are using allows you to use fake
identities. Anything else can go dark.
About wiki, this is my favourite example this
https://github.com/guifi-exo/wiki/tree/master/howto
I like to download all wiki content to go offline. Hence, I don't like
mediawiki for small wikis and I prefer git. Is there a really
important need to host ourselves that wiki? git? If is git:
github.com? gitlab.com? The VM where matrix.guifi.net is only for
realtime communication, there is also a buggy meet.guifi.net
7 Feb
7 Feb
4:32 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] [OT] New Matrix chat
I put part of this information in:
https://github.com/guifi-exo/wiki/blob/master/howto/matrix-riot.md#dark-thi…
I commented the parts I discarded:
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 5:17 PM, samba <samba(a)autistici.org> wrote:
[OT continue]
I'm also critic about matrix.org and any related client, like riot.
I think our approach to technology should be critic and accept and use a
new tech when this is approved and discussed by the communities
My concern about matrix are both political, tecnological and social
political, because the main funder is AMDOC, search amodoc-mossad on
google and you can discover something interesting
tecnological, because
1) matrix generate ALOT ot metadata on the central server, even if the
communication is encrypted, the metadata are not and most of the
software analysis to generate network maps use just metadata, more you
have more the map is accurate
2) the Person-in-the-Middle style as Amuza explain is scary
3) is not free
social
4) is trying to create federation with a single app using a non-standard
protocol with a very broken community and recently with some funding
problems. If we need a solution should be decentralized, like mesh
federation app, from the darkside:
https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse
https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite
alternative:
https://github.com/ruma/ruma
https://github.com/kamax-io/mxhsd
conclusion: no single app / single funded stuff
about non-standard protocol. What means standard? Means that should be
filtered by some guys of an organization? W3C? IETF? ITU? IEEE? ISO?
What do you think about current [PKI
Infrastructure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_key_infrastructure)
of HTTPS and its relation with browsers (what is secure and what no)
https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#why-arent-you-doing-this-through-th…
This guys started doing running code, and I appreciate it. As I
appreciate the direction of this other non-standard but easily
auditable VPN project: wireguard.com
The specification: https://matrix.org/docs/spec/
I wonder when we should start to critic new tech, when
they come or when
everybody already use it. Usually we just accept and use it mostly of
this, because it's making life easier.
Around this and the hype, I'm 100% with these words in "1. forget the
hype" https://medium.freecodecamp.org/being-a-developer-after-40-3c5dd112210c
7:15 p.m.
New subject: [lime-users] [OT] New Matrix chat
conclusion: no single app / single funded stuff
well we still have email and irc
about non-standard protocol. What means standard?
Means that should be
what means standard - https://xkcd.com/927/
appreciate the direction of this other non-standard
but easily
auditable VPN project: wireguard.com
are you sure wireguard is not standard?
https://www.wireguard.com/protocol
Around this and the hype, I'm 100% with these
words in "1. forget the
hype" https://medium.freecodecamp.org/being-a-developer-after-40-3c5dd112210c
nice article
but I don't see matrix as the new hype, I see it just as another app.
But I can be wrong, let's see how this will develop in the future, if
will be rewritten in go, if synapse will support better API, if the
license will be GPL
or if tomorrow appear another app
bye
--
ɐqɯ@s
23 Feb
23 Feb
2:01 p.m.
On 25/10/17 14:38, Nicolas Pace wrote:
[...]
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
I'm curious about if after the whole discussion are Libremesh developers
continuing using Telegram...
(as I don't see Libremesh developers in other channels)
3:20 p.m.
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 03:01:10PM +0100, al wrote:
On 25/10/17 14:38, Nicolas Pace wrote:
I'm on freenode occasionally but perfer to do most of my communication
asynchronously via email. (I've never been using Telegram)
[...]
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
I'm curious about if after the whole discussion are Libremesh developers
continuing using Telegram...
(as I don't see Libremesh developers in other channels) 
8:37 p.m.
Lately there's been some activity on matrix:
https://matrix.to/#/!xWIRAARPdhfjrGpwAZ:musaik.net/$15193333832451303hrwjf:…
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Daniel Golle <daniel(a)makrotopia.org>
wrote:
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 03:01:10PM +0100, al wrote:
--
bruno(a)pobox.com ▀─█▄██▄▀▄
http://brunovianna.net ─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄
skype: randomico▀─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄▌██─█▌█▌
On 25/10/17 14:38, Nicolas Pace wrote:
I'm on freenode occasionally but perfer to do most of my communication
asynchronously via email. (I've never been using Telegram)
_______________________________________________
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[...]
The thing is that for the last months for practical purposes many of us
started using telegram... we need to see what to do with that!
I'm curious about if after the whole discussion are Libremesh developers
continuing using Telegram...
(as I don't see Libremesh developers in other channels)
2253
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22 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
al -
Amuza -
bruno vianna -
Daniel Golle -
guifipedro -
Ilario Gelmetti -
Nicolas Pace -
Nicolás Echániz -
samba