17 Aug
2018
17 Aug
'18
10:40 a.m.
Some replies inline.
On 16/8/18 20:59, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:41 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro(a)pangea.org
<mailto:leandro@pangea.org>> wrote:
Hi !
Yes, the commons model is superior. CNs need to learn how to make
their implementations work on a millions scale.
At B4RN they say they give the best connectivity in the UK because
they dedicate all their resources to that, and they don't have to
pay others.
That is what is needed to build an independant community network.
Basing a Community Network on a 100 Mbps or a GBPS or two from an ISP
or a Telecom company makes it a good start, but the Network is an
effect a sub-distribution operation for a Telecom / ISP in terms of
its dependance.
I agree, there are communities that have started like that. Sharing a
transit connection is a good way to reduce the entry barrier. One good
case is RemIX in Scotland:
http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~mmf/res/pubs/gaia16_remix.pdf
Several community networks, as they grow, aggregate more traffic, buy
more capacity from different carriers, get connected to IXPs (e.g.
Ninux, Freifunk, guifi, B4RN ... cases we have studied in Europe) which
allow them to exchange traffic with many other networks, which results
in better quality traffic for everyone involved.
In the case of guifi.net they also rent optical regional circuits thanks
to its cost-sharing model to aggregate capacity (the
sub-distribute/aggregate traffic you mention) from multiple individual
or local participating retail ISPs that are part of guifi.net. Therefore
they bridge the gap from retail capacity required by participants to
wholesale open-access fiber networks.
Just to understand, do submarine networks offer
commercial
arrangements for transport on a minimal scale ( 1GB / 10 GBPS )?
I'd say this
is the role of global carriers and top tier ISPs that offer
these rates in many points-of-presence globally. Submarine networks that
are at a higher scale of aggregation.
What is the typical cost of a 1GB / 10 GBPS switch at
an IXP? Do IXPs
everywhere offer supernodes to Community Networks?
CNs can participate in IXPs just like any other member org. The price of
ports in IXP I understand depend on the size and specific infra costs of
that IXP (size is really diverse). Many IXPs are also distributed (PoP
in multiple locations). These are from our local IXP:
http://www.catnix.net/en/taxes/
In addition, the transport/peering costs in the IXP vary depending on
the symmetry of traffic. For instance, I remember talking to Freifunk in
Berlin 1-2 years ago, and they were paying net 0 for traffic (without
entering into details) as they have a very symmetric traffic (a good
balance between content they deliver and they request, the so called
"eyeballs").
Would be helpful if any of the submarine networks or
its partners and
IXPs share their pricing roughly.
Many of these prices can be collected or guessed from diverse sources.
If you investigate that it would be useful to share the results.
Kind regards, Leandro.
Sivasubramanian M
They're not the only ones. In
https://www.measurementlab.net/publications/2015-Braem-et-al.pdf
with independent data from M-Lab, you can see that 3 CNs are among
the best operators in their countries in quality (e.g. section 4.2
pg 5, Figure 10 pg 6). We say: "The three networks are among the
top eight ISPs in download speed. guifi.net <http://guifi.net> is
ranked first in Spain both in median upload speed and best median
latency; Ninux (FusoLab) is ranked second in upload, and fourth in
best latency; AWMN (part of LANCOM) is first in upload speed, 8th
in best latency. In the area of Barcelona, where guifi.net
<http://guifi.net> has its connections to Internet carriers, the
results are excellent: first in upload speed (guifi.net
<http://guifi.net> 7.82 Mbps, the Academic network 4.23 and
Cableuropa ONO 3.31), third in download speed (Cableuropa-ONO 18.1
Mbps, the Academic network 9.8, guifi.net <http://guifi.net> 9.79)
and first in best latency (guifi.net <http://guifi.net> 14 ms,
Vodafone 25, Cableuropa-ONO 35)".
That is something known in the world of free software. There are
free implementations that are superior to commercial ones (Android
is based on GNU/Linux, let's see when Movistar is based on the
infrastructure of guifi.net...). All commercial software products
are built from free software, built openly and cooperatively (as
commons), because that seems to be the only way to have robust
enough software infrastructures/libraries at a reasonable
cost/quality to build stable products on top.
Cheers, Leandro.
On 16/8/18 17:27, Sarbani Banerjee Belur wrote:
Hi Sivasubramanian,
Community networks does exist in India and it is a sustainable initiative.
Gram Marg at IIT Bombay has set up one spanning 10 villages in Palghar,
Maharashtra, Digital Empowerment Foundation has set up some as well. There
are more going to be set up in this year and the next. These CNs are set
up in locations that have no mobile connectivity and are usually in
remote, rural villages of India.
Local ISPs have come to the rescue and provide bandwidth in such locations.
With regards,
Sarbani
> In Chennai, India, I spoke to someone in an educational institution about
> starting a Community Network. He argued that access is no longer a problem
> as Telecom companies offer 3G and 4G services everywhere. He wouldn't
> listen to arguments concerning the cost and clever pricing models of
> access
> that indiscernably amass huge sums by microscopic extraction, wouldn't
> listen to arguments about nominal and actual bandwidth. He and some
> others
> take the position that a case does not exist for Community Networks here.
>
> Happens to be an iconic opinion. It is a challenge to present arguments,
> articles such as this are of ample help.
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:20 PM Marco Zennaro <mzennaro(a)ictp.it>
<mailto:mzennaro@ictp.it> wrote:
>
>> Interesting news:
>>
>>
>>
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5k5m/consumer-reports-broadban…
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marco
>>
>> Marco Zennaro, PhD // Research Officer // T/ICT4D Lab // ICTP //
>> wireless.ictp.it <http://wireless.ictp.it>
>>
>>
>>
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Sivasubramanian M
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