21 Feb
2017
21 Feb
'17
12:27 a.m.
If you want more reading you can go to http://rmf.vc/FurtherReading. I used
to include more URLs in the posts for specific but find too many people
didn't read them and saw them as too self-referential.
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net
[mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] On Behalf Of Leandro Navarro
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 18:58
To: dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net
Subject: Re: [DC3] IEEE/World Bank event
Yes, analogies depend on its prescribed use, like medicines, in a limited
context. The analogy works well to me with sound, voice, music. I agree that
moving to the upper layers gets tricky, we get to speech, we can play with
the idea of freedom, communication in a linguistic sense, meaning ... too
complex and far from our internet infrastructure, connectivity, etc. Thanks
a lot for your clarification, I'll ready carefully your article. Best
regards, Leandro.
On 20/2/17 22:56, Bob Frankston wrote:
We need to be careful about taking analogies speech and relaying speech when
we talk about connectivity. We're not relaying speech, we're relaying
meaningless generic packets. This makes all the difference in the world.
To the extent to which we are in the legacy telecom framing we do having
speech being controlled by providers so understand the need to deal with it
on those terms.
But fungible connectivity using generic packets doesn't have the same
ability to exclude so we can work on connectivity separate from particular
social policies. We still need to deal with the social issues but on their
own terms. http://rmf.vc/PurposeVsDiscovery might help with understanding
this. Once we outside of telecom we still need to deal with the social
issues on their own terms apart from the technology. As well as other
consequences.
As an aside it's interesting that JCR Licklider and Bob Taylor who played
key roles in giving us the Internet were both acoustic psychologists. They
studied how the brain interprets noises as speech. One of the things at MIT
when I was there were the "language wars" with Chomsky on the formalist
side. I sided with the AI and psycholinguists (like Lick but he had moved on
to computers by then). Lakoff and Papert were also on the AI /
Psycholinguistics side. I mention this because it's part of understanding
the difference between communications and speech in the cognitive sense of
meaning vs. "communications" in the technology sense which is (now) very
different.
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
[mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] On Behalf Of Leandro Navarro
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 13:14
To: dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] IEEE/World Bank event
Hi, I find the analogy of the acoustic space and audio tech useful with CN
(as it breaks with the idea of pipes and focuses more on social interaction,
human rights).
We have the acoustic space where we everyone agrees on rights and freedoms
of speech, access and communication: a natural space for comm/interaction
that just works if we are close enough to each other.
As scale grows we need technology aids to amplify the sound and cover a
large area and that may create exclusion and other issues: those with the
microphone, places equipped with infrastructure, money required, business
models about that tech and its services...
For (interaction in) the digital space we always need technology aids, tech
infrastructure, as this is an artificial space (human made). Tech enables
this digital space not only in the local scope (homes, schools,
communities), and when inter-networking, it also works at the global scope
(Internet).
Similar to audio tech, choices and models around the infrastructure and
services in the digital space make a big difference in universal
participation in the digital space, critical for full participation in
society.
Leandro.
On 20/2/17 16:24, Bob Frankston wrote:
Thanks. It is a challenge to get people to think outside the idea of the
Internet as something that flows through pipes. I appreciate any suggestions
into how to better explain the concepts. I'm working on any essay now that
positions the Internet as byproduct of a fundamental conceptual shift (or,
if you wish, paradigm)
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
[mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] On Behalf Of Michael Oghia
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:02
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> <dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] IEEE/World Bank event
I really liked your post, Bob, specifically this line:
"We're accustomed to thinking of networking as a service and networks as
physical things like railroads with well-defined tracks. The Internet is
more like the road system that emerges from the way we use any path
available. We aren't even confined to roads thanks to our ability to buy our
own off-road vehicles. There is no physical network as such but rather
disparate transports for raw packets which make no promises other than a
best effort to transport packets."
Thanks for sharing!
Best,
-Michael
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Bob Frankston
<Bob19-0501(a)bobf.frankston.com <mailto:Bob19-0501@bobf.frankston.com> >
wrote:
I'm active with the IEEE (board of governors of the consumer electronics
society) but the organization is struggling to get past it's hardware
orientation. It is very difficult to get the traditional players to think of
the Internet as anything but another telecommunications service. I failed
with this IEEE initiative. You can get a sense of this in the enthusiasm for
5G
(http://spectrum.ieee.org/video/telecom/wireless/everything-you-need-to-know
-about-5g) vs what I wrote after CES (http://rmf.vc/5GATSC).
The Internet as a byproduct of software and as infrastructure is a very
different framing. It would be good if the IMF could understand that and if
you have suggestions for how to be heard I'm open to suggestions.
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
[mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net> ] On Behalf Of Judith Hellerstein
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 09:42
To: dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] IEEE/World Bank event
HI Bob,
Historically the IEEE event is held one day before the Fall/spring World
Bank/IMF meetings since the meetings are April 21-23 that leads me to think
the IEEE meeting is on April 20, but best is to ask the IEEE.
It is also likely that the Fall meeting will be on October 12 since the Fall
meetings are on October 13-15 2017
Best,
Judith
_________________________________________________________________________
Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO
Hellerstein & Associates
3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008
Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein
E-mail: Judith(a)jhellerstein.com <mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com> Website:
www.jhellerstein.com <http://www.jhellerstein.com>
Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/>
Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
On 2/17/2017 9:31 AM, dc3(a)bob.ma <mailto:dc3@bob.ma> wrote:
April 20? I need to learn more ASAP because I was about to sign up for an
event in California April 19-21st that has a deadline of today. But from my
experience these events are set pieces rather than places to effect real
change. And given the current policy climate .
I see some of the usual suspects on the list from last year - is it a good
opportunity for effective hall conversations? It's really about the
networking and conversations rather than the presentations. That's what made
IGF so valuable - meeting the others on this list.
I have toyed with working with ISOC on organizing a workshop on connectivity
as infrastructure but not sure if I can do any better. Having real
deployments speaks a lot louder.
From: <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net [
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] On Behalf Of Judith Hellerstein
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 07:48
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> <dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] IEEE/World Bank event
Hi Michael,
This email was for last years event. The IEEE and the world bank hold this
event twice a year timed with the fall and spring world bank/imf meetings.
This year the meetings are April 20. I do not think the announcement is out
yet about the April meeting. I will be attending. I have attended the two
previous events
Best,
Judith
Sent from my iPad
Judith(a)jhellerstein.com <mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com>
Skype ID: judithhellerstein
On Feb 17, 2017, at 7:12 AM, Michael Oghia <mike.oghia(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mike.oghia@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi everyone,
Is anyone planning on attending this (including you Bob)? It might be a good
networking/outreach activity:
IEEE, in conjunction with the World Bank, will be holding the Global Connect
Stakeholders: Advancing Solutions event in Washington, DC, on 13-14 April
http://internetinitiative.ieee.org/events/conferences/global-connect-stakeho
lders-advancing-solutions
Best,
-Michael
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