2 Mar
2017
2 Mar
'17
3:53 p.m.
It’s a process. This is why I’m trying to take an approach of setting and citing examples.
In the US I’m trying to work with residential property owners to provide local
connectivity. Building on examples that are commercial viable and sustainable are the most
powerful means. Overall though I try my best to explain the concepts.
I realize the challenge because even when there are good examples like Altermundi people
just see it through the lens of the telecom narrative. I also understand the need to work
on intermediate approaches to deliver social benefits. I just want to make sure we
understand the difference between the short term efforts and a longer term direction.
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net [mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] On
Behalf Of Michael Oghia
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 10:34
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] Collaborating with local power companies
I absolutely agree Bob, but then the question becomes how to facilitate that transition of
ownership?
-Michael
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 4:29 PM, <dc3(a)bob.ma <mailto:dc3@bob.ma> > wrote:
Yes, think about simply mounting things like WiFi repeaters.
A simple way to think about it is to ignore the accidental properties of the copper wires
except as one optional radio medium. What the companies really have is ownership of the
poles as real estate. Like railroads have become real estate companies and Sprint (SP as
in Southern Pacific) was a company that start by taking advantage of the railroads right
of way. It becomes even more absurd when we treat radio frequencies as property. One
reason why copper is interesting is the original reason why Ethernet was on coax -- it was
ALOHAnet on a contained radio medium that avoided others' regulations.
If we step back, especially in the US, we have to wonder why the poles are still owned by
power companies and phone companies as a legacy of bad metaphors. When work has to be done
on poles there are complex regulations and rental schemes. It's time to move on to
more rational models with communities owning those rights of way so we don’t have legacy
rent-seekers limiting our ability to communicate.
That won't happen on its own but that's the normative model to look forward to
once there are examples to point to.
-----Original Message-----
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
[mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
] On Behalf Of Carlos Afonso
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 09:43
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> >
Subject: Re: [DC3] Collaborating with local power companies
A major problem is signal interference -- both from the power lines themselves onto the
modulated signal and radio interference by the propagation of relatively low frequency
waves along unshielded lines with no harmonics suppression. Also, modulated signals are
unable to "jump" transformers, which require adaptations on these points.
Power line wifi repeaters may work nicely in internal premises though.
fraternal regards
--c.a.
On 24/02/2017 11:49, Bob Frankston wrote:
> *From:*dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net
--
Carlos A. Afonso
[emails são pessoais exceto quando explicitamente indicado em contrário] [emails are
personal unless explicitly indicated otherwise]
Instituto Nupef - <https://nupef.org.br> https://nupef.org.br
CGI.br - <http://cgi.br> http://cgi.br
ISOC-BR - <https://isoc.org.br> https://isoc.org.br
_______________________________________________
DC3 mailing list
<mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net
<https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3>
https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3
_______________________________________________
DC3 mailing list
DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net
https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3
First, I need to preference this is that I’m answering
this in terms
of the US and the issues are different elsewhere.
I’ve followed this issue over the years and there is a
lot of mythology.
The problem is the US is primarily political and
economic. If the
communities own their wires they could easily light up
the copper to
many megabits or gigabits per second. Unlike cities it
is far easier
to add wired and wireless capacity. The real costs are
actually very low.
What is expensive is taking a 1950’s type approach to
use the facilities.
The other twist in the US is the cockamamie idea that
the distribution
system has to be a profit center like railroad tracks
rather than
infrastructure like roads.
The other twist is that the 20 years of interesting
using power lines
goes back to the power companies thinking there is
money in “Internet”
so they want to use their wires which just happen to
be copper – the
same mineral that is used Ethernet thus they can make
big bucks
selling Internet alongside electricity. But if you
read their whole
pitch it becomes obvious that they are institutionally
the worst
choice. They make the phone and cable companies look
agile.
So we get back to the simple idea of communities
owning their
facilities. If they have access to the poles and
existing copper and
the ability to invest in their own gear and take
Internet native
( <http://rmf.vc/InternetNativePolicies>
http://rmf.vc/InternetNativePolicies) instead of use telecom pricing
and policies the limitations would disappear rather
quickly.
[ <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net] *On Behalf Of *Michael
Oghia
*Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 07:08
*To:* DC on Community Connectivity (DC3) <
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
*Subject:* [DC3] Collaborating with local power
companies
Hi everyone,
I just read this Interesting article:
<https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/technology/how-to-give-rural-americ>
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/technology/how-to-give-rural-americ
a-broadband-look-to-the-early-1900s.html
I know the idea of providing Internet via power lines
is more or less
a defunct idea (not due to technological constraints,
but the lack of
political will to invest in it to protect existing
revenues). However,
has anyone on this list ever thought about working
with electricity
companies, especially local power companies?
Best,
-Michael
_______________________________________________
DC3 mailing list
<mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net>
DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net
<https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3>
https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3
