Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52395771?utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medi… Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter @Inkmedia 289-830 6259 . On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:20 AM Carlos &lt;carlos(a)apc.org&gt; wrote: > Hi all, in this link you can find the video of the webinar we > organized about this particular topic on Wednesday together with the slides > used: https://share2.apc.org/index.php/s/kseFPLsPHoJHX4r > > best, > > carlos > On 23/4/20 18:24, dc3(a)bob.ma wrote: > > Summary. The 5G radio is incidental to the business goal of replacing > the Internet with a 1970’s vintage one and it doomed to fail just like IMS > killed Lucent > > > > The longer version is a bit long because this is old territory and > I’ve been writing about this for years and feel a duty to protect the > Internet against those who see it as an existential threat. > > > > > > Alas, the video doesn’t get the joke. > > > > Sure there is an interesting radio technology with severe limits on > the range. But you can get similar technology with Wi-Fi 6 and without > giving total control cellular networks. Too bad researchers have sold their > reputation so they could get funding for engineering those radios by > calling them 5G and thus, implicitly, endorsing the larger business > strategy of 5G. > > > > T-Mobile doesn’t even bother with the new radios because for them, and > the telcos, 5G is really about returning to the intelligent network and > clawing value back from the apps and making sure every device is tethered > and generating billable events. It is the face of anti-neutrality in which > the telcos are selling priority by claiming some bits are special and > require that they take capacity away from the commons and sell it to the > highest bidder. > > > > And they have science on their side because we can prove beyond any > doubt that voice traffic needs a special network. Oops, VoIP happened, uh > oh. (OK, they actually new packets would destroy the value of their network > which is why they tried to get into cable TV). LTE wasn’t supposed to > support voice but VoIP showed how. > > > > If you look at all the use cases they are stories written by > marketers. No, remote VR isn’t a crisis and telesurgery is murder. What we > do need is telemedicine which works fine with Skype, (sorry, Zoom) and > needs more Wi-Fi and less paywalls. We are supposed to make all our devices > dependent upon 5G radios which we don’t control because we can’t be trusted > managing our own connectivity. All the cars having hypercomplex radio > conversations to replace looking at the window? Yeah, have fun making that > all work. > > > > In 2004 Lucent said we need IMS (Internet Multimedia Subsystem) > because can’t do video without a control plane. Then one day the jig was > up, Lucent dived 90% in value and they pieces were bought up by a legacy > Telco (Alcatel). > > > > The real benefit to 5G is in making the network more valuable and more > revenue for the chip companies. It is not in adding value to the users – > just the opposite. And it doesn’t so anything we can’t do now better by > innovating. > > > > > > Bob Frankston > > https://Frankston.com > > > > *From:* dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net > &lt;dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; > &lt;dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; *On Behalf Of *Steve Song > *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:50 > *To:* Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity > &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; > *Subject:* Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype > > > > There are a lot of youtube explainer videos on 5G. This is the best > that I have watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EgXz1CEfQw > although it does have a little bit of a US bias. > > > > Cheers... Steve > > > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 at 13:29, Glenn McKnight &lt;mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > > FYI for your listening pleasure > > Here is a video on WIFI during closed Libraries by Giganet > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yojoGjaIgmukFfeAE0d0ZRjJSg21nq0y/view > > > > > Here is the link to the main page > > http://giglibraries.net/page-1712339 > > > > FYI > We have created this page on Covid 19 and Teaching resources > > https://padlet.com/acalderon/Teach_Learn_Online > > > > I will create a padlet page with 5 G resource articles > > G > > > > > > > > Glenn McKnight > > ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 > > mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com > > Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog > > www.internetgovernancehub.blog > <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> > > http://toronto.ieee.ca/ > > IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair > > glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org > skype gmcknight > twitter @Inkmedia > > 289-830 6259 > . > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:02 AM Glenn McKnight < > mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > HI Siva > > I agree that we need to separate the 5G hype from reality, impartial > analysis and a real cost analysis . I see this typical with TVWS as the > best solution since sliced bread( or roti) but none of this is written > in plain english or other . > > g > > Glenn McKnight > > ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 > > mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com > > Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog > > www.internetgovernancehub.blog > <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> > > http://toronto.ieee.ca/ > > IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair > > glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org > skype gmcknight > twitter @Inkmedia > > 289-830 6259 > . > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:50 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy < > 6.internet(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > > > Thank you Glenn and Leandro. The pad lists some important points. > Leadndro's paper is a useful research paper. There have been some > presentations in IGF and other fora where 5G policy issues were explained > clearly. Pointers to some of those resources, even webpages / blogs might > be helpful, not only to respond to this list participant, but in general to > share with those who may not have a technical background. > > > > In response to the question, the digitized books on Community Network > would also help in providing a fair perspective. > > > > Would also helpful if some of you could join the list > http://isocindiachennai.org/mailman/listinfo/moreinternet_isocindiachennai.… > > > > Thank you. > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:09 PM Leandro Navarro &lt;leandro(a)pangea.org&gt; > wrote: > > I couldn't attend the session, but I participated in a joint paper > some time ago about the 5G hype. Metaphorically and simplifying, if we are > talking about thirst and lack of water, 5g is mainly a new type of drink > cocktail, a new flavor to attract sophisticated consumers, as long as you > live in profitable places for the service and you can pay for it. Renewal > of communications equipment and devices is a business opportunity for > manufacturers mainly, but not just the best "water" to the unconnected, > rural, ... (non premium clients), even a problem as investment from > operators gets first pushed by the trend towards satisfying high paying > urban customers and not to spread connectivity to low pay social/universal > inclusion customers, and definitely not network co-owners as in CNs. > > https://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/5G.pdf > > Leandro. > > On 23/04/2020 15:17, sivasubramanian muthusamy wrote: > > Dear Jane, > > > > Please see inline: > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:33 PM Jane Coffin &lt;coffin(a)isoc.org&gt; wrote: > > Siva – > > > > APC just did a great session on 5G. I think the meet-up was recorded. > > There rae a lot of issues related to 5G…. > > I think one thing that is key – we need to connect in a tech neutral > way. By focusing just on 5G, we divert attention away from immediate > complimentary solutions – from 3G to 4G to Community Networks and the need > for more IXPs. > > > > I also am curious about the CAPEX/OPEX per kilometer based on > population and average income related to 5G…. > > > > I will locate the video archive of the APC session on 5G and share > it; The summary information you provided is succinct, helps some of us who > are well familiar with the issues and the governance process understand the > important points. However, the request (in the list that was set up > following the 'more' Internet Chennai Virtual event wherein you led a > session on Community Networks) happens to be from academia, from someone > who might not be familiar with the background. What may be more helpful is > to put together a list of links / documents / presentations that are more > like "what is 5G - seeing through the hype" kind of title, which gives > information both at a basic level, and at the same time gets into nuances > such as '5G is a bundle of technologies otherwise available in collectable > parts in open source', '5G hype is about lobbying to project this as a > unique breakthrough that qualifies for all the world's spectrum' etc.. > > > > When I post the resources in response to the query titled "Request for > resources on 5G aka magic dust" I would not resist the temptation to quote > Andrew Sullivan who said during the Chennai Roundtable *"5G is like > the new magic technology, right ? It is a floor wax, and it is also a > dessert topping. It* > > *will wash your clothes and make your dinner. A lot of the time, when > you hear those kinds of claims about any given technology, for the > internet, or really for anything else, you' re going to be disappointed." > * > > > > > > > > Best, > Jane > > > > Senior Vice President, Internet Growth > > Internet Society > > +1.202.247.8429 > > www.internetsociety.org > > > > > > *From: *&lt;dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; on behalf of > sivasubramanian muthusamy &lt;6.internet(a)gmail.com&gt; > *Reply-To: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity < > dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; > *Date: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 8:57 AM > *To: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity < > dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; > *Subject: *[DC3] Resources on the 5G hype > > > > A certain participant of an Internet Society India Chennai Chapter > special mailing list seeking pointers: > > > > to learn more about 5G's potential implications for democracy and > human rights. (Very broad... I know). I wonder if anyone on this list has > any resources to share on architecture or deployment, for instance: > > - a good high level overview of technical/architectural elements, > > - further information about potential resource conflicts in relation > to 4g/6g/fiber, etc., > > - risks around proprietary software, etc. > > > > Links, key words, directions towards initiatives or organizations to > look at — anything would be a huge help! > > > > Bringing that question to this list to seek help in answering that > question. > > > > Thank you > > > > Sivasubramanian M > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy/> > > > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing list > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > DC3 mailing list > > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > -- > > Leandro Navarro > > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing list > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing list > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing list > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > > > -- > > Steve Song > > +1 902 529 0046 > > http://villagetelco.org > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing listDC3@listas.altermundi.nethttps://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > > -- > Carlos Rey-Moreno, PhD > Local Access Policy and Regulation Coordinator > Association for Progressive Communicationshttps://www.apc.org/en/project/connecting-unconnected-support… > Cel: +27 (0) 76 986 3633 > Skype: carlos.reymoreno Twitter: Creym > > _______________________________________________ > DC3 mailing list > DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net > https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 > _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3