Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype

Summary. The 5G radio is incidental to the business goal of replacing the Internet with a 1970’s vintage one and it doomed to fail just like IMS killed Lucent   The longer version is a bit long because this is old territory and I’ve been writing about this for years and feel a duty to protect the Internet against those who see it as an existential threat.     Alas, the video doesn’t get the joke.   Sure there is an interesting radio technology with severe limits on the range. But you can get similar technology with Wi-Fi 6 and without giving total control cellular networks. Too bad researchers have sold their reputation so they could get funding for engineering those radios by calling them 5G and thus, implicitly, endorsing the larger business strategy of 5G.   T-Mobile doesn’t even bother with the new radios because for them, and the telcos, 5G is really about returning to the intelligent network and clawing value back from the apps and making sure every device is tethered and generating billable events. It is the face of anti-neutrality in which the telcos are selling priority by claiming some bits are special and require that they take capacity away from the commons and sell it to the highest bidder.   And they have science on their side because we can prove beyond any doubt that voice traffic needs a special network. Oops, VoIP happened, uh oh. (OK, they actually new packets would destroy the value of their network which is why they tried to get into cable TV). LTE wasn’t supposed to support voice but VoIP showed how.   If you look at all the use cases they are stories written by marketers. No, remote VR isn’t a crisis and telesurgery is murder. What we do need is telemedicine which works fine with Skype, (sorry, Zoom) and needs more Wi-Fi and less paywalls. We are supposed to make all our devices dependent upon 5G radios which we don’t control because we can’t be trusted managing our own connectivity. All the cars having hypercomplex radio conversations to replace looking at the window? Yeah, have fun making that all work.   In 2004 Lucent said we need IMS (Internet Multimedia Subsystem) because can’t do video without a control plane. Then one day the jig was up, Lucent dived 90% in value and they pieces were bought up by a legacy Telco (Alcatel).   The real benefit to 5G is in making the network more valuable and more revenue for the chip companies. It is not in adding value to the users – just the opposite. And it doesn’t so anything we can’t do now better by innovating.     Bob Frankston https://Frankston.com   *From:* dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net &lt;dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; *On Behalf Of *Steve Song *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:50 *To:* Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; *Subject:* Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype   There are a lot of youtube explainer videos on 5G.  This is the best that I have watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EgXz1CEfQwalthough it does have a little bit of a US bias.   Cheers... Steve   On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 at 13:29, Glenn McKnight &lt;mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>> wrote: FYI for your  listening pleasure   Here is a video on WIFI during closed Libraries by Giganet https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yojoGjaIgmukFfeAE0d0ZRjJSg21nq0y/view    Here is the link to the main page  http://giglibraries.net/page-1712339   FYI  We have created this page on Covid 19 and Teaching resources  https://padlet.com/acalderon/Teach_Learn_Online   I will create a padlet page with 5 G resource articles  G       Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for  Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog  <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair  glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype  gmcknight twitter @Inkmedia 289-830 6259 .     On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:02 AM Glenn McKnight &lt;mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>> wrote: HI Siva  I agree that we need to separate the 5G hype from reality,  impartial  analysis and a real cost analysis .  I see this typical with TVWS as the best solution since  sliced bread( or  roti)   but  none of this is written in plain english or other .   g Glenn McKnight ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021 mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> Curator for  Internet Governance Hub Blog www.internetgovernancehub.blog  <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog> http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair  glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org> skype  gmcknight twitter @Inkmedia 289-830 6259 .     On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:50 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy &lt;6.internet(a)gmail.com <mailto:6.internet@gmail.com>> wrote:   Thank you Glenn and Leandro. The pad lists some important points. Leadndro's paper is a useful research paper.  There have been some presentations in IGF and other fora where 5G policy issues were explained clearly. Pointers to some of those resources, even webpages / blogs might be helpful, not only to respond to this list participant, but in general to share with those who may not have a technical background.   In response to the question, the digitized books on Community Network would also help in providing a fair perspective.    Would also helpful if some of you could join the list http://isocindiachennai.org/mailman/listinfo/moreinternet_isocindiachennai.…   Thank you.   On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:09 PM Leandro Navarro &lt;leandro(a)pangea.org <mailto:leandro@pangea.org>> wrote: I couldn't attend the session, but I participated in a joint paper some time ago about the 5G hype. Metaphorically and simplifying, if we are talking about thirst and lack of water, 5g is mainly a new type of drink cocktail, a new flavor to attract sophisticated consumers, as long as you live in profitable places for the service and you can pay for it. Renewal of communications equipment and devices is a business opportunity for manufacturers mainly, but not just the best "water" to the unconnected, rural, ... (non premium clients), even a problem as investment from operators gets first pushed by the trend towards satisfying high paying urban customers and not to spread connectivity to low pay social/universal inclusion customers, and definitely not network co-owners as in CNs. https://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/5G.pdf Leandro. On 23/04/2020 15:17, sivasubramanian muthusamy wrote: Dear Jane,   Please see inline:   On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:33 PM Jane Coffin &lt;coffin(a)isoc.org <mailto:coffin@isoc.org>> wrote: Siva –   APC just did a great session on 5G.  I think the meet-up was recorded. There rae a lot of issues related to 5G…. I think one thing that is key – we need to connect in a tech neutral way.  By focusing just on 5G, we divert attention away from immediate complimentary solutions – from 3G to 4G to Community Networks and the need for more IXPs.   I also am curious about the CAPEX/OPEX per kilometer based on population and average income related to 5G….   I will locate the video archive of the APC session on 5G and share it;  The summary information you provided is succinct, helps some of us who are well familiar with the issues and the governance process understand the important points. However, the request (in the list that was set up following the 'more' Internet Chennai Virtual event wherein you led a session on Community Networks) happens to be from academia, from someone who might not be familiar with the background.  What may be more helpful is to put together a list of links / documents / presentations that are more like "what is 5G - seeing through the hype" kind of title, which gives information both at a basic level, and at the same time gets into nuances such as '5G is a bundle of technologies otherwise available in collectable parts in open source',  '5G hype is about lobbying to project this as a unique breakthrough that qualifies for all the world's spectrum' etc..    When I post the resources in response to the query titled "Request for resources on 5G aka magic dust" I would not resist the temptation to quote Andrew Sullivan who said during the Chennai Roundtable /"5G is like the new magic technology, right ? It is a floor wax, and it is also a dessert topping. It/ /will wash your clothes and make your dinner. A lot of the time, when you hear those kinds of claims about any given technology, for the internet, or really for anything else, you' re going to be disappointed."   /       Best, Jane   Senior Vice President, Internet Growth Internet Society +1.202.247.8429 www.internetsociety.org <http://www.internetsociety.org>      *From: *&lt;dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy &lt;6.internet(a)gmail.com <mailto:6.internet@gmail.com>> *Reply-To: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net>> *Date: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 8:57 AM *To: *Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net>> *Subject: *[DC3] Resources on the 5G hype   A certain participant of an Internet Society India Chennai Chapter special mailing list seeking pointers:     to learn more about 5G's potential implications for democracy and human rights. (Very broad... I know). I wonder if anyone on this list has any resources to share on architecture or deployment, for instance:  - a good high level overview of technical/architectural elements,  - further information about potential resource conflicts in relation to 4g/6g/fiber, etc.,  -  risks around proprietary software, etc.    Links, key words, directions towards initiatives or organizations to look at — anything would be a huge help!   Bringing that question to this list to seek help in answering that question.   Thank you   Sivasubramanian M <https://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy/>   _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3   _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 -- Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 -- Steve Song +1 902 529 0046 http://villagetelco.org _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3