7 May
2020
7 May
'20
7:57 p.m.
To respond to both.
Thanks. The ICANN report is useful for debunking a number of the myths about 5G.
“Spectrum” isn’t a thing. It’s a property we can measure. The reason we have spectrum
management goes back to the 1920’s when we basically used electronic tuning forks and
created virtual wires because we had to have a smart network because we had dumb
endpoints. There was then the mistranslation of Claude Shannon’s models that accepted the
idea of spectrum bands as being physically necessary and they had to reserved.
In reality the radio waves pass through each other and we get confusion when we look at
only a single frequency. By calling that interference it sounds like physics. But as we
know humans don’t communicate that way – they use rich information and interpretation in
their intelligent endpoints (brains).
So the fundamental idea of spectrum allocation creates scarcity in the same way modems
holding up phone line creates scarcity in the 1990’s until we converted it all to packets
and we have super abundant capacity one we remove the regulator model of the 1920’s.
As to 5G. It is 5G that is the end of innovation because it drags intelligence into the
network and prevents permissionless innovation.
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net <dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net> On
Behalf Of Glenn McKnight
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 15:42
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype
Hi
I put this set of resources together on Spectrum
* <https://fliphtml5.com/bookcase/ikuuv>
https://fliphtml5.com/bookcase/ikuuv
*
* G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org>
skype gmcknight
twitter @Inkmedia
289-830 6259
.
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:25 PM sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet(a)gmail.com
<mailto:6.internet@gmail.com> > wrote:
@ Jane
1. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/enough-5g-hype Are there similar write ups?
2. Could you or someone tell me in plain English what is special about 5 G?
3. Of that is which is special, what is it that 5G includes in its 'bundle'
that is NOT already available / about to be available by the work already done by
organizations such as IETF / IEEE / private initiatives / Government Research ?
4. If there is no 5G, does Internet cease to progress?
Thank you
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 9:02 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> > wrote:
Hi
Added it to our list of Teaching and Training resources
https://padlet.com/acalderon/Teach_Learn_Online
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org>
skype gmcknight
twitter @Inkmedia
289-830 6259
.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 11:13 AM Maureen Hernandez <hernandezgmaureenp(a)gmail.com
<mailto:hernandezgmaureenp@gmail.com> > wrote:
I've just found this Linux foundation courses
https://training.linuxfoundation.org/training/course-catalog/?_sft_course_m…
<https://training.linuxfoundation.org/training/course-catalog/?_sft_course_mode=e-learning&_sf_s=5G>
&_sf_s=5G
I haven't taken them so I'm not sure of the quality but it could help someone.
Cheers,
El vie., 24 abr. 2020 a las 10:33, Glenn McKnight (<mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> >) escribió:
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52395771?utm_source=sendgrid
<https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52395771?utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters>
&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org>
skype gmcknight
twitter @Inkmedia
289-830 6259
.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:20 AM Carlos <carlos(a)apc.org <mailto:carlos@apc.org>
> wrote:
Hi all, in this link you can find the video of the webinar we organized about this
particular topic on Wednesday together with the slides used:
https://share2.apc.org/index.php/s/kseFPLsPHoJHX4r
best,
carlos
On 23/4/20 18:24, dc3(a)bob.ma <mailto:dc3@bob.ma> wrote:
Summary. The 5G radio is incidental to the business goal of replacing the Internet with a
1970’s vintage one and it doomed to fail just like IMS killed Lucent
The longer version is a bit long because this is old territory and I’ve been writing about
this for years and feel a duty to protect the Internet against those who see it as an
existential threat.
Alas, the video doesn’t get the joke.
Sure there is an interesting radio technology with severe limits on the range. But you can
get similar technology with Wi-Fi 6 and without giving total control cellular networks.
Too bad researchers have sold their reputation so they could get funding for engineering
those radios by calling them 5G and thus, implicitly, endorsing the larger business
strategy of 5G.
T-Mobile doesn’t even bother with the new radios because for them, and the telcos, 5G is
really about returning to the intelligent network and clawing value back from the apps and
making sure every device is tethered and generating billable events. It is the face of
anti-neutrality in which the telcos are selling priority by claiming some bits are special
and require that they take capacity away from the commons and sell it to the highest
bidder.
And they have science on their side because we can prove beyond any doubt that voice
traffic needs a special network. Oops, VoIP happened, uh oh. (OK, they actually new
packets would destroy the value of their network which is why they tried to get into cable
TV). LTE wasn’t supposed to support voice but VoIP showed how.
If you look at all the use cases they are stories written by marketers. No, remote VR
isn’t a crisis and telesurgery is murder. What we do need is telemedicine which works fine
with Skype, (sorry, Zoom) and needs more Wi-Fi and less paywalls. We are supposed to make
all our devices dependent upon 5G radios which we don’t control because we can’t be
trusted managing our own connectivity. All the cars having hypercomplex radio
conversations to replace looking at the window? Yeah, have fun making that all work.
In 2004 Lucent said we need IMS (Internet Multimedia Subsystem) because can’t do video
without a control plane. Then one day the jig was up, Lucent dived 90% in value and they
pieces were bought up by a legacy Telco (Alcatel).
The real benefit to 5G is in making the network more valuable and more revenue for the
chip companies. It is not in adding value to the users – just the opposite. And it doesn’t
so anything we can’t do now better by innovating.
Bob Frankston
<https://Frankston.com> https://Frankston.com
From: dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
<mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net> <dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net>
On Behalf Of Steve Song
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:50
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net>
<dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: Re: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype
There are a lot of youtube explainer videos on 5G. This is the best that I have watched
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EgXz1CEfQw>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EgXz1CEfQw although it does have a little bit of a US
bias.
Cheers... Steve
On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 at 13:29, Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> > wrote:
FYI for your listening pleasure
Here is a video on WIFI during closed Libraries by Giganet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yojoGjaIgmukFfeAE0d0ZRjJSg21nq0y/view
Here is the link to the main page
http://giglibraries.net/page-1712339
FYI
We have created this page on Covid 19 and Teaching resources
https://padlet.com/acalderon/Teach_Learn_Online
I will create a padlet page with 5 G resource articles
G
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org>
skype gmcknight
twitter @Inkmedia
289-830 6259
.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:02 AM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> > wrote:
HI Siva
I agree that we need to separate the 5G hype from reality, impartial analysis and a real
cost analysis . I see this typical with TVWS as the best solution since sliced bread( or
roti) but none of this is written in plain english or other .
g
Glenn McKnight
ICANN NOMCOM 2019-2021
mcknight.glenn(a)gmail.com <mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com>
Curator for Internet Governance Hub Blog
www.internetgovernancehub.blog <http://www.internetgovernancehub.blog>
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight(a)ieee.org <mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org>
skype gmcknight
twitter @Inkmedia
289-830 6259
.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:50 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet(a)gmail.com
<mailto:6.internet@gmail.com> > wrote:
Thank you Glenn and Leandro. The pad lists some important points. Leadndro's paper is
a useful research paper. There have been some presentations in IGF and other fora where
5G policy issues were explained clearly. Pointers to some of those resources, even
webpages / blogs might be helpful, not only to respond to this list participant, but in
general to share with those who may not have a technical background.
In response to the question, the digitized books on Community Network would also help in
providing a fair perspective.
Would also helpful if some of you could join the list
http://isocindiachennai.org/mailman/listinfo/moreinternet_isocindiachennai.…
Thank you.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:09 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro(a)pangea.org
<mailto:leandro@pangea.org> > wrote:
I couldn't attend the session, but I participated in a joint paper some time ago
about the 5G hype. Metaphorically and simplifying, if we are talking about thirst and lack
of water, 5g is mainly a new type of drink cocktail, a new flavor to attract sophisticated
consumers, as long as you live in profitable places for the service and you can pay for
it. Renewal of communications equipment and devices is a business opportunity for
manufacturers mainly, but not just the best "water" to the unconnected, rural,
... (non premium clients), even a problem as investment from operators gets first pushed
by the trend towards satisfying high paying urban customers and not to spread connectivity
to low pay social/universal inclusion customers, and definitely not network co-owners as
in CNs.
https://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/5G.pdf
Leandro.
On 23/04/2020 15:17, sivasubramanian muthusamy wrote:
Dear Jane,
Please see inline:
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:33 PM Jane Coffin <coffin(a)isoc.org
<mailto:coffin@isoc.org> > wrote:
Siva –
APC just did a great session on 5G. I think the meet-up was recorded.
There rae a lot of issues related to 5G….
I think one thing that is key – we need to connect in a tech neutral way. By focusing
just on 5G, we divert attention away from immediate complimentary solutions – from 3G to
4G to Community Networks and the need for more IXPs.
I also am curious about the CAPEX/OPEX per kilometer based on population and average
income related to 5G….
I will locate the video archive of the APC session on 5G and share it; The summary
information you provided is succinct, helps some of us who are well familiar with the
issues and the governance process understand the important points. However, the request
(in the list that was set up following the 'more' Internet Chennai Virtual event
wherein you led a session on Community Networks) happens to be from academia, from someone
who might not be familiar with the background. What may be more helpful is to put
together a list of links / documents / presentations that are more like "what is 5G -
seeing through the hype" kind of title, which gives information both at a basic
level, and at the same time gets into nuances such as '5G is a bundle of technologies
otherwise available in collectable parts in open source', '5G hype is about
lobbying to project this as a unique breakthrough that qualifies for all the world's
spectrum' etc..
When I post the resources in response to the query titled "Request for resources on
5G aka magic dust" I would not resist the temptation to quote Andrew Sullivan who
said during the Chennai Roundtable "5G is like the new magic technology, right ? It
is a floor wax, and it is also a dessert topping. It
will wash your clothes and make your dinner. A lot of the time, when you hear those kinds
of claims about any given technology, for the internet, or really for anything else,
you' re going to be disappointed."
Best,
Jane
Senior Vice President, Internet Growth
Internet Society
+1.202.247.8429
www.internetsociety.org <http://www.internetsociety.org>
From: < <mailto:dc3-bounces@listas.altermundi.net>
dc3-bounces(a)listas.altermundi.net> on behalf of sivasubramanian muthusamy <
<mailto:6.internet@gmail.com> 6.internet(a)gmail.com>
Reply-To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 8:57 AM
To: Dynamic Coalition on Community Connectivity <
<mailto:dc3@listas.altermundi.net> dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net>
Subject: [DC3] Resources on the 5G hype
A certain participant of an Internet Society India Chennai Chapter special mailing list
seeking pointers:
to learn more about 5G's potential implications for democracy and human rights.
(Very broad... I know). I wonder if anyone on this list has any resources to share on
architecture or deployment, for instance:
- a good high level overview of technical/architectural elements,
- further information about potential resource conflicts in relation to 4g/6g/fiber, etc.,
- risks around proprietary software, etc.
Links, key words, directions towards initiatives or organizations to look at — anything
would be a huge help!
Bringing that question to this list to seek help in answering that question.
Thank you
Sivasubramanian M <https://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy/>
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https://www.apc.org/en/project/connecting-unconnected-supporting-community-…
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Skype: carlos.reymoreno Twitter: Creym
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