31 Aug
2018
31 Aug
'18
11:36 a.m.
Dear Leandro,
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 4:10 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro(a)pangea.org> wrote:
Some replies inline.
On 16/8/18 20:59, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:41 PM Leandro Navarro <leandro(a)pangea.org>
wrote:
The above link is broken, and also the link to remix architecture from the
page
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/good-practice-remix-dist…
Hi !
Yes, the commons model is superior. CNs need to learn how to make their
implementations work on a millions scale.
At B4RN they say they give the best connectivity
in the UK because they
dedicate all their resources to that, and they don't have to pay others.
That is what is needed to build an independant community network. Basing a
Community Network on a 100 Mbps or a GBPS or two from an ISP or a Telecom
company makes it a good start, but the Network is an effect a
sub-distribution operation for a Telecom / ISP in terms of its dependance.
I agree, there are communities that have started like that. Sharing a
transit connection is a good way to reduce the entry barrier. One good case
is RemIX in Scotland:
http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~mmf/res/pubs/gaia16_remix.pdf
Several community networks, as they grow, aggregate
more traffic, buy more
capacity from different carriers, get connected to IXPs (e.g. Ninux,
Freifunk, guifi, B4RN ... cases we have studied in Europe) which allow them
to exchange traffic with many other networks, which results in better
quality traffic for everyone involved.
In the case of guifi.net they also rent optical regional circuits thanks
to its cost-sharing model to aggregate capacity (the
sub-distribute/aggregate traffic you mention) from multiple individual or
local participating retail ISPs that are part of guifi.net. Therefore
they bridge the gap from retail capacity required by participants to
wholesale open-access fiber networks.
All these are good examples to follow. The goals of good community
networks such as guifi.net's goal of "promoting advanced research in the
filed of open networks and infrastructures, and that of generating
collaboration platforms between stakeholders" worth expanded attention.
There could be a concerted effort for advanced research, and there could be
a globally unified platform for collaboration on Community Networks. The
Internet Society could help build one, using voluteer effort and open
source technologies.
Just to understand, do submarine networks offer
commercial arrangements
for transport on a minimal scale ( 1GB / 10 GBPS )?
I'd say this is the role of global carriers and top tier ISPs that offer
these rates in many points-of-presence globally.
Submarine networks that are at a higher scale of
aggregation.
It would be helpful to understand what this 'higher scale' is (For example,
See-Me-We 4 has a design capacity of 4.6 TBPS / s . Would it be too
insignificant for this network to provide a strand of 100 GBPS/s ? for we
will eventually get there, and surpass this scale (one or two new Community
Networks with higher aspirations could even start at the beach front)
What is the typical cost of a 1GB / 10 GBPS switch at an IXP? Do IXPs
everywhere offer supernodes to Community Networks?
CNs can participate in IXPs just like any other member org. The price of
ports in IXP I understand depend on the size and specific infra costs of
that IXP (size is really diverse). Many IXPs are also distributed (PoP in
multiple locations). These are from our local IXP:
http://www.catnix.net/en/taxes/
In addition, the transport/peering costs in the IXP vary depending on the
symmetry of traffic. For instance, I remember talking to Freifunk in Berlin
1-2 years ago, and they were paying net 0 for traffic (without entering
into details) as they have a very symmetric traffic (a good balance between
content they deliver and they request, the so called "eyeballs").
Would be helpful if any of the submarine networks or its partners and IXPs
share their pricing roughly.
Many of these prices can be collected or guessed from diverse sources. If
you investigate that it would be useful to share the results.
Kind regards, Leandro.
Sivasubramanian M
They're not the only ones. In
https://www.measurementlab.net/publications/2015-Braem-et-al.pdf with
independent data from M-Lab, you can see that 3 CNs are among the best
operators in their countries in quality (e.g. section 4.2 pg 5, Figure 10
pg 6). We say: "The three networks are among the top eight ISPs in
download speed. guifi.net is ranked first in Spain both in median upload
speed and best median latency; Ninux (FusoLab) is ranked second in upload,
and fourth in best latency; AWMN (part of LANCOM) is first in upload speed,
8th in best latency. In the area of Barcelona, where guifi.net has its
connections to Internet carriers, the results are excellent: first in
upload speed (guifi.net 7.82 Mbps, the Academic network 4.23 and
Cableuropa ONO 3.31), third in download speed (Cableuropa-ONO 18.1 Mbps,
the Academic network 9.8, guifi.net 9.79) and first in best latency (
guifi.net 14 ms, Vodafone 25, Cableuropa-ONO 35)".
That is something known in the world of free software. There are free
implementations that are superior to commercial ones (Android is based on
GNU/Linux, let's see when Movistar is based on the infrastructure of
guifi.net...). All commercial software products are built from free
software, built openly and cooperatively (as commons), because that seems
to be the only way to have robust enough software infrastructures/libraries
at a reasonable cost/quality to build stable products on top.
Cheers, Leandro.
On 16/8/18 17:27, Sarbani Banerjee Belur wrote:
Hi Sivasubramanian,
Community networks does exist in India and it is a sustainable initiative.
Gram Marg at IIT Bombay has set up one spanning 10 villages in Palghar,
Maharashtra, Digital Empowerment Foundation has set up some as well. There
are more going to be set up in this year and the next. These CNs are set
up in locations that have no mobile connectivity and are usually in
remote, rural villages of India.
Local ISPs have come to the rescue and provide bandwidth in such locations.
With regards,
Sarbani
In Chennai, India, I spoke to someone in an educational institution about
starting a Community Network. He argued that access is no longer a problem
as Telecom companies offer 3G and 4G services everywhere. He wouldn't
listen to arguments concerning the cost and clever pricing models of
access
that indiscernably amass huge sums by microscopic extraction, wouldn't
listen to arguments about nominal and actual bandwidth. He and some
others
take the position that a case does not exist for Community Networks here.
Happens to be an iconic opinion. It is a challenge to present arguments,
articles such as this are of ample help.
Sivasubramanian M
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:20 PM Marco Zennaro <mzennaro(a)ictp.it>
<mzennaro(a)ictp.it> wrote:
Interesting news:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5k5m/consumer-reports-broadban…
Cheers,
Marco
Marco Zennaro, PhD // Research Officer // T/ICT4D Lab // ICTP //wireless.ictp.it
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Sivasubramanian M
Please send all replies to 6.Internet(a)gmail.com
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