Hi Leandro and all Thank you very much for sharing the IETF presentation. Very interesting. I share your view but not completely (if I understand it correctly :)). I agree that it would be the socially just to combine different uses in shared fibre cables (what you call self-service for the city council [or may be other administration]; private use; common use), however I think it might be more successful if the proportion is not exactly the same. Considering that nowadays new submarine cables are increasingly developed by private actors for private use only (with increasing role played by Facebook and Google as cable shareholders) I think it would be overoptimistic to think such players would keep on invest the same amount of money if they can use on 1 third of the total capacity (assuming that this is what you were arguing in the presentation). It is possible and I think it would be more successful to argue that part of the total capacity or even half must dedicated to common/public use but I think that more than this may discourage investments (which are quite important as regards the construction of submarine cables). Actually, I am arguing that the example above is feasible because it is precisely what is happening with the Ellalink cable, connecting Brazil to Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EllaLink Part of Ellalink capacity will be dedicated exclusively to be used for research purposes, as Ellalink will be instrumental to connect EU research centers with the EU astronomical observatory in Chile https://www.eso.org/public/about-eso/ to receive and analyse real time ultrahigh definition images. We invited the Ellalink's CEO to know more about their governance model. Will be able to talk about this at IGF. All the best Luca [http://www.fgv.br/mailing/2018/direito_rio/assinatura/fgv_direito_rio.jpg] Luca Belli, PhD Professor of Internet Governance and Regulation [http://www.fgv.br/mailing/2018/direito_rio/assinatura/fgv_tel.jpg]+55 21 3799 5763 t @1lucabelli<https://twitter.com/1lucabelli> [http://www.fgv.br/mailing/2018/direito_rio/assinatura/fgv_direito_rio_map.j… de Botafogo, 190 13º andar Botafogo - Rio de Janeiro, RJ - CEP: 22250-900 [http://www.fgv.br/mailing/2018/direito_rio/assinatura/fgv_ass_email.jpg] luca.belli@fgv.br<mailto:luca.belli@fgv.br> [http://www.fgv.br/mailing/2018/direito_rio/assinatura/fgv_ass_url.jpg]inter… <https://internet-governance.fgv.br/> De: Leandro Navarro [mailto:leandro@pangea.org] Enviada em: domingo, 28 de outubro de 2018 08:11 Para: Luca Belli &lt;luca.belli(a)fgv.br&gt;br>; Dynamic Coalition on Connected Communities &lt;dc3(a)listas.altermundi.net&gt; Cc: Roger Baig Viñas &lt;roger.baig(a)guifi.net&gt;et>; Ramon Roca &lt;ramon.roca(a)guifi.net&gt; Assunto: Re: [DC3] Seminar on the Governance of Submarine Cables Dear Luca, Very interesting topic. Please share the conclusions with this forum. It links with a presentation in the last IETF 102 in the GAIA WG. I hope it helps to continue and elaborate the discussion about these infrastructures. The slides: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/docs/ietf-102-universal.pdf The issue is simple: the deployment of private infrastructures (private submarine cables) over non-private areas (that literally or conceptually belong to everyone and everything in this planet) should have a return to everyone in the form of min/no cost open-access fibre managed/governed as a commons. Instead of an "abstract" monetary tax return for their deployment and operation or profit, submarine cables should have a mandatory return in terms of infrastructure sharing: open-access fibres managed as a commons. Many stakeholders may be interested in it, but likewise unlicensed radio-spectrum bands, a single/pair fibre has unlimited potential for open-access communication under a commons governance. Attached is a copy in English of version 14 of a document developed by the guifi.net Foundation that proposes "universal deployment" as a template for municipal ordinance/regulation for municipalities in Catalonia, that is the basis for my proposal/presentation in the IETF. The current version (28) is in Catalan. Cc to Ramon Roca and Roger Baig from the guifi.net Foundation who have developed/coordinated this document: https://fundacio.guifi.net/en_US/page/documentos Kind regards, Leandro. On 27/10/18 20:50, Luca Belli wrote: Hi all, I remember some weeks ago it emerged interest in submarine cable, on the list. At FGV, we are going to host a day-long seminar on the Governance of Submarine Cables, on Wednesday, in partnership with CGI.br, the French Consulate, Internet Sans Frontières and the Brazilian Consumer Protection Institute. See https://www.cg.org.br/noticia/releases/seminario-inedito-sobre-operacao-e-u… If anyone in the Rio area is interested, sejam benvindos :) The event will be in Portuguese but our FGV fellow Félix Blanc will be in Paris for the IGF (he is going to organise an IGF workshop on the same topic) and I can put anyone interested in contact with him to have further insight on our debates and on future work, if anyone is interested. All the best Luca _______________________________________________ DC3 mailing list DC3@listas.altermundi.net<mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi all, Some comments and clarifications: * In any case the universal format proposal is intended to discourage any private investment. As Leandro already said, the only objective is to ensure a return to the society for the usage of common goods. Public land in the case of terrestrial deployments and public waters in the case of the submarine cables. The only difference is that we propose to swap taxes for network capacity straight, again, as already Leandro already said. * The exact portion of fibres assignation is nothing written in stone. 1/3 is just a proposal that seams reasonable for our case (deployments in municipalities) but must be adjusted in each case, specially not to jeopardize any potential investment. Just like taxes again. Unreasonably high taxation would block private initiative and to low taxation would impede the public administrations to deliver the public services expected in modern societies. * The only restriction is that the commons part must always have the highest priority in case of scarcity because 1) it is the most efficient thanks to continuous innovations in multiplexing and capacity extension (the assumption of practical infinite capacity is reasonable in optical fibre) and the coordinated management and 2) because it is always opened to everybody, included those who have access to the other to formats, so if the run out of capacity of any of the two, they can always join the commons. * I'm not familiar with EllaLink's details but in Catalonia we have a long experience in odd agreements for academic, artistic, research, etc. networks and all have in common that, at most, they just serve a limited number of people and many of them have proved to be totally useless. One might argue that well regulated their impact can be increased, but in any case they are still clubs. On the contrary, what we propose is to create a common good opened to everybody. Kind regards. On 30/10/18 18:15, Leandro Navarro wrote: .jpg 21 3799 *5763** **t*@1lucabelli <https://twitter.com/1lucabelli> _map.jpgPraia de Botafogo, 190 13º andar pg internet-governance.fgv.br <https://internet-governance.fgv.br/> ao-e-uso-de-cabos-submarinos-tera-a-participacao-e-apoio-do-cgi-br/ >> >> >> >> If anyone in the Rio area is interested, sejam benvindos :) >> >> >> >> The event will be in Portuguese but our FGV fellow Félix Blanc >> will be in Paris for the IGF (he is going to organise an IGF >> workshop on the same topic) and I can put anyone interested in >> contact with him to have further insight on our debates and on >> future work, if anyone is interested. >> >> >> >> All the best >> >> Luca >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> DC3 mailing list >> >> DC3(a)listas.altermundi.net <mailto:DC3@listas.altermundi.net> >> >> https://listas.altermundi.net/mailman/listinfo/dc3 >> - -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net

The IETF presentation says "Private infrastructures over public space, occupy public resources: air spectrum, land, sea", on which Leandro is emphatic "the deployment of private infrastructures (private submarine cables) over non-private areas (that literally or conceptually belong to everyone and everything in this planet) should have a return to everyone in the form of min/no cost open-access fibre managed/governed as a commons. ". It feels good to see this. On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:41 AM &lt;dc3(a)bob.ma&gt; wrote: -- Sivasubramanian M Please send all replies to 6.Internet(a)gmail.com