26 Aug
2018
26 Aug
'18
3:19 p.m.
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
27 Aug
27 Aug
5:16 p.m.
I'm bumping this... because the regional meeting has materialized very
quickly and if we are OK with creating such list I'd like to use it for
this event's collective planning.
Cheers,
Nico
On 08/26/2018 12:19 PM, Nicolás Echániz wrote:
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
5:39 p.m.
I think it's a great idea.
Besides the local coordination, it will be a good space for new members.
Not everyone working on CNs can speak English!
On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 12:20 PM Nicolás Echániz <nicoechaniz(a)altermundi.net>
wrote:
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
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skype: randomico▀─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄▌██─█▌█▌
7:01 p.m.
I support
Peter
On August 27, 2018 12:39:45 PM CDT, bruno vianna <bruno(a)pobox.com> wrote:
I think it's a great idea.
Besides the local coordination, it will be a good space for new
members.
Not everyone working on CNs can speak English!
On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 12:20 PM Nicolás Echániz
<nicoechaniz(a)altermundi.net>
wrote:
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been
talking
through informal channels with people who are
starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists
would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these
groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the
correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists
and
later on apply for the Council when the time is
right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their
regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads
:)
Cheers!
Nico
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
--
bruno(a)pobox.com ▀─█▄██▄▀▄
http://brunovianna.net ─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄
skype: randomico▀─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄▌██─█▌█▌ 
7:45 p.m.
I find it also a good idea.
Thinking loud regarding voting process: perhaps to include in decisions
a "default-vote" and go through them during the council "assemblies"
just to be sure there are really no objections?
Or, along these lines, agree that if 3 people vote "positively" to a
proposal and there are no objections raised, we assume that all the rest
agree also?
Not sure, just brainstorming :-)
On 27.08.2018 19:39, bruno vianna wrote:
I think it's a great idea.
Besides the local coordination, it will be a good space for new members.
Not everyone working on CNs can speak English!
On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 12:20 PM Nicolás Echániz
<nicoechaniz(a)altermundi.net <mailto:nicoechaniz@altermundi.net>> wrote:
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been
talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists
would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these
groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their
regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info <mailto:Council@lists.cnsig.info>
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
--
bruno(a)pobox.com <mailto:bruno@pobox.com> ▀─█▄██▄▀▄
http://brunovianna.net <http://brunovianna.net/> ─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄
skype: randomico▀─█▄██▄▀█▀█▄▌██─█▌█▌
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
10:10 p.m.
+1
English:
It would be important for me, individually and as a member of the CNSIG.
The use of Spanish was very decisive to quickly prepare the project that
we sent to BtN. If we had done it in English, we would not have finished
on time.
Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are responsible
for retransmitting what happens there periodically, to keep us all aware.
Español:
Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como participante del CNSIG.
El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el proyecto que
presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos entregado a tiempo.
De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se encarguen de
retransmitir lo que allí pase periódicamente, para mantenernos a todos
al tanto.
El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
11:19 p.m.
Hello everyone,
I think the idea of having a list in Spanish/Portuguese sounds great.
Best,
Karla Velasco Ramos
www.redesac.org.mx
+52 1 55 36 66 69 24
On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:10 PM Jesica <giudicejesica(a)altermundi.net> wrote:
+1
English:
It would be important for me, individually and as a member of the CNSIG.
The use of Spanish was very decisive to quickly prepare the project that
we sent to BtN. If we had done it in English, we would not have finished
on time.
Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are responsible for
retransmitting what happens there periodically, to keep us all aware.
Español:
Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como participante del
CNSIG.
El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el proyecto que
presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos entregado a tiempo.
De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se encarguen de
retransmitir lo que allí pase periódicamente, para mantenernos a todos al
tanto.
El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
Hi all,
During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
event in September.
Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
be useful:
1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
speakers among their members.
2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
starting their journey in community networking.
This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
"semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
I would like to know your opinions on this.
I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
Cheers!
Nico
_______________________________________________
Council mailing
listCouncil@lists.cnsig.infohttps://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
28 Aug
28 Aug
3:26 p.m.
+1
On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 01:19:31 CEST Karla Velasco wrote:
Hello everyone,
I think the idea of having a list in Spanish/Portuguese sounds great.
Best,
Karla Velasco Ramos
www.redesac.org.mx
+52 1 55 36 66 69 24
On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:10 PM Jesica <giudicejesica(a)altermundi.net> wrote:
> +1
>
> English:
>
> It would be important for me, individually and as a member of the CNSIG.
> The use of Spanish was very decisive to quickly prepare the project that
> we sent to BtN. If we had done it in English, we would not have finished
> on time.
>
> Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are responsible for
> retransmitting what happens there periodically, to keep us all aware.
>
> Español:
>
> Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como participante del
> CNSIG.
> El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el proyecto que
> presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos entregado a tiempo.
> De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se encarguen de
> retransmitir lo que allí pase periódicamente, para mantenernos a todos al
> tanto.
>
>
> El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
>
> Hi all,
>
> During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been talking
> through informal channels with people who are starting to work on
> community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
> event in September.
>
> Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists would
> be useful:
> 1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
> speakers among their members.
> 2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
> starting their journey in community networking.
>
> This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
> spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these groups
> as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the correct term for
> "semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
>
> Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
> Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
> interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
> later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
>
> I would like to know your opinions on this.
>
> I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
> thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
> lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
>
> Cheers!
> Nico
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing
> listCouncil@lists.cnsig.infohttps://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/cou
> ncil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing list
> Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
> https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
29 Aug
29 Aug
7:08 a.m.
+1
With Regards
Jaspreet Singh
Project Manager
Grammarg, Electrical Engg Dept
IIT Bombay
+91 98963 89883
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 8:56 PM Gio <gio(a)diveni.re> wrote:
+1
On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 01:19:31 CEST Karla Velasco wrote:
Hello everyone,
I think the idea of having a list in Spanish/Portuguese sounds great.
Best,
Karla Velasco Ramos
www.redesac.org.mx
+52 1 55 36 66 69 24
On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:10 PM Jesica <giudicejesica(a)altermundi.net>
wrote:
> +1
>
> English:
>
> It would be important for me, individually and as a member of the
CNSIG.
> The use of Spanish was very decisive to
quickly prepare the project
that
> we sent to BtN. If we had done it in
English, we would not have
finished
> on time.
>
> Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are responsible
for
> retransmitting what happens there
periodically, to keep us all aware.
>
> Español:
>
> Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como participante del
> CNSIG.
> El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el proyecto
que
> presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos
entregado a tiempo.
> De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se encarguen de
> retransmitir lo que allí pase periódicamente, para mantenernos a todos
al
> tanto.
>
>
> El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
>
> Hi all,
>
> During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been
talking
> through informal channels with people who
are starting to work on
> community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
> event in September.
>
> Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists
would
> be useful:
> 1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
> speakers among their members.
> 2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
> starting their journey in community networking.
>
> This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
> spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these
groups
> as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the
correct term for
> "semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
>
> Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
> Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
> interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
> later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
>
> I would like to know your opinions on this.
>
> I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
> thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their regional
> lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
>
> Cheers!
> Nico
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing
> listCouncil@lists.cnsig.infohttps://
lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/cou
> ncil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing list
> Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
> https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
9:35 a.m.
+1 <3
--
Jenny Ryan
People's Open Network <https://peoplesopen.net>
*Building a community-owned and -operated wireless network in Oakland,
California!*
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:08 AM Jaspreet Singh <jassi2713(a)gmail.com> wrote:
+1
With Regards
Jaspreet Singh
Project Manager
Grammarg, Electrical Engg Dept
IIT Bombay
+91 98963 89883
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 8:56 PM Gio <gio(a)diveni.re> wrote:
Sent via Migadu.com, world's easiest email hosting
+1
On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 01:19:31 CEST Karla Velasco wrote:
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
Hello everyone,
I think the idea of having a list in Spanish/Portuguese sounds great.
Best,
Karla Velasco Ramos
www.redesac.org.mx
+52 1 55 36 66 69 24
On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:10 PM Jesica <giudicejesica(a)altermundi.net>
wrote:
> +1
>
> English:
>
> It would be important for me, individually and as a member of the
CNSIG.
> The use of Spanish was very decisive to
quickly prepare the project
that
> we sent to BtN. If we had done it in
English, we would not have
finished
> on time.
>
> Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are
responsible for
> retransmitting what happens there
periodically, to keep us all aware.
>
> Español:
>
> Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como participante del
> CNSIG.
> El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el proyecto
que
> presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos
entregado a tiempo.
> De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se encarguen de
> retransmitir lo que allí pase periódicamente, para mantenernos a
todos al
> tanto.
>
>
> El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
>
> Hi all,
>
> During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have been
talking
> through informal channels with people who
are starting to work on
> community networks in Latin America, in order to invite them to the
> event in September.
>
> Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing lists
would
> be useful:
> 1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
> speakers among their members.
> 2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are only now
> starting their journey in community networking.
>
> This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
> spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting these
groups
> as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the
correct term for
> "semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council later on.
>
> Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
> Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already expressed
> interest in joining the SIG, to join first in their regional lists and
> later on apply for the Council when the time is right.
>
> I would like to know your opinions on this.
>
> I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this decision
> thread, but if other members wish to propose opening now their
regional
> lists, go ahead and open other decision
threads :)
>
> Cheers!
> Nico
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing
> listCouncil@lists.cnsig.infohttps://
lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/cou
> ncil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Council mailing list
> Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
> https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________
Council mailing list
Council(a)lists.cnsig.info
https://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/council
4:51 p.m.
Great,
The list is up:
http://lists.cnsig.info/mailman/listinfo/lac
I have already added LAC members of the Council to the list.
Anyone else willing to join please use the link.
We will be coordinating the LAC meeting through that list and Mattermost
channel with the same name: LAC.
Cheers!
Nico
On 08/29/2018 06:35 AM, Jenny Ryan wrote:
+1 <3
--
Jenny Ryan
People's Open Network <https://peoplesopen.net>
/Building a community-owned and -operated wireless network in Oakland,
California!/
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:08 AM Jaspreet Singh <jassi2713(a)gmail.com
<mailto:jassi2713@gmail.com>> wrote:
+1
With Regards
Jaspreet Singh
Project Manager
Grammarg, Electrical Engg Dept
IIT Bombay
+91 98963 89883
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 8:56 PM Gio <gio(a)diveni.re
<mailto:gio@diveni.re>> wrote:
+1
On Tuesday, 28 August 2018 01:19:31 CEST Karla Velasco wrote:
Hello everyone,
I think the idea of having a list in Spanish/Portuguese sounds
great.
Best,
Karla Velasco Ramos
www.redesac.org.mx <http://www.redesac.org.mx>
+52 1 55 36 66 69 24
On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:10 PM Jesica
<giudicejesica(a)altermundi.net
<mailto:giudicejesica@altermundi.net>> wrote:
> +1
>
> English:
>
> It would be important for me, individually and as a member
of the
CNSIG.
> The use of Spanish was very decisive to
quickly prepare the
project that
> we sent to BtN. If we had done it in
English, we would not
have finished
> on time.
>
> Anyway, it would be good to have one o more people who are
responsible for
> retransmitting what happens there
periodically, to keep us
all aware.
>
> Español:
>
> Sería muy importante para mi, individualmente y como
participante
del
> CNSIG.
> El uso de español fue decisivo para preparar rápidamente el
proyecto
que
> presentamos en BtN. En inglés no hubiéramos
entregado a tiempo.
> De todas maneras, sería bueno que haya quien o quienes se
encarguen
de
> retransmitir lo que allí pase
periódicamente, para
mantenernos a todos al
> tanto.
>
>
> El 26/08/18 a las 12:19, Nicolás Echániz escribió:
>
> Hi all,
>
> During the planning of the meeting in Buenos Aires, we have
been
talking
> through informal channels with people who
are starting to
work on
> community networks in Latin America, in
order to invite them
to the
> event in September.
>
> Two factors have led to the idea that regional CNSIG mailing
lists
would
> be useful:
> 1) the language barrier. Many projects don't have fluent english
> speakers among their members.
> 2) project maturity: an increasing number of projects are
only now
> starting their journey in community
networking.
>
> This led to the idea that a CNSIG-LAC mailing list with
> spanish/portuguese as main languages would allow connecting
these
groups
> as well as serving as a seedbed (is that the
correct term for
> "semillero"?) for groups that could be part of the Council
later on.
>
> Regional lists would opens up the opportunity for cases such as
> Tunapanda (Africa) and other projects that have already
expressed
> interest in joining the SIG, to join first
in their regional
lists and
> later on apply for the Council when the time
is right.
>
> I would like to know your opinions on this.
>
> I'm only proposing to open the LAC regional list in this
decision
> thread, but if other members wish to propose
opening now
their regional
> > lists, go ahead and open other decision threads :)
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Nico
> >
2620
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2623
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10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
bruno vianna -
Gio -
Jaspreet Singh -
Jenny Ryan -
Jesica -
Karla Velasco -
Nicolás Echániz -
panayotis antoniadis -
Peter